So I went to survivor and decided to redistribute my points to change my skill tree. What I upgraded was

70% Summoning Range (Enginner) 30% Summoning Faster (Enginner)

And -20% Summoning Range and +20% Summoning Faster (Wildling)

The Problem :

I created an alternate account to test this out. Here are the results

Normal Summoning Speed - 1 Second

50% Faster Summoning Speed - 0.8 Seconds

I tested many times and the result was around 7.5 to 7.53 Seconds.

That is about 20% to 30% faster summoning speed not 50%

Range

Now This was hard to figure out so I had to find a co-op shaman map so I can test it out.

What I found was that 50% Extra range was only less than 10%

I found a map where the platform is in the range of my full acc.

And I could reach about 0.5 Centimeters under that platform.

While my new acc was able to reach 0.2 Centimeters under that platform.

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This is broken , please fix it because its annoying.

What I think may be going on is that the percentages are subtracted by the original percentage itself? I dunno, it could just be a bug, like instead of 30 plus 20 it's thinking 20% of 30%, which may make a weird number. I'm confusing myself, math,

No that does not change the equation too much 1-100% x-70% x=0.7 and then 0.7=100% x=80% x=0.56 Seconds.

Range = y-100% x-70% x=0.7y and then 0.7y=100% x=20% x=0.56y

How do you get the idea of 70% more summoning range? The eagle eye skill increases your range by 30%. Substracting 20% range due to the reflex skill leaves you with a 110% range which seems to be the case in my experience.

How did you measure summoning speed?

Eagle Eye +30% Range , Big Spirit 5/5 +50% Range.

Reflex -20% , Im sorry you can't do simple maths?

Range was Measured by this

Normal Shaman Full Range 6cm Across

50% Range+ Shaman only 6,2cm Across

Which is a pathetic lie.

And leaves us with 3%

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Also I did a mistake in my last post the range was supposed to be measured like this

y-100% x-70% x=0.7y and then 0.7y=100% x=20% x=0,14y

Skynanners a dit :

Eagle Eye +30% Range , Big Spirit 5/5 +50% Range.

Reflex -20% , Im sorry you can't do simple maths?

Idk how you do math but 100%+30%+50%-20%=160%
This would leave you with a 60% increase and not a 70% increase.
Nonetheless, the big spirit skill doesn't increase your summoning range but the range of the spirit's effectiveness, i.e. mice that are further away from the spirit are still affected by it.
The 50% from big spirit falling away means: 100%-20%+30%=110%, however this is also not the correct range, I will explain later. Please don't bluntly question my math skills if you don't know what you are talking about and even make mistakes yourself :(

Also, measuring with a ruler on your screen is quite an inaccurate way of measuring, better use pixels from screenshots.
Doing this I got the following results of diameters:
Normal range = 242 pixels
Plus 30% range = 315 pixels
Minus 20% plus 30% range = 250 pixels

Calculation for 30% extended range:
x = 242 + 242/100 * 30
x = 242 + 72.6
x = 314.6 ≈ 315

Calculation for minus 20%:
x = 242 - 242/100 * 20
x = 242 - 48.4
x = 193.6 ≈ 194

followed by plus 30%:
x = 193.6 + 193.6/100 *30
x = 193.6 + 58.08
x = 251.68 ≈ 252 ≈ 250

So we can conclude that the 30% increased range in fact does have the right range. The minus 20% and plus 30% range is calculated differently than one would expect. It's not minus 20% from the initial range plus 30% from the initial range but minus 20% from the inital range and plus 30% from the reduced range.
This means it's not 110% but 104% of the initial range:

x = 242 + 242/100 * 4
x = 242 + 9.68
x = 251.68 ≈ 252 ≈ 250

While this might not be the intuitive way to add up the percentages there is no bug within the calculation. The mathematical results are a little off from my measurements which is OK since it's not possible to do perfect measurements, even with the pixels. However, the results are so close to the measurements leading to a confirmation that the ranges are correct.


Also I want to repeat my question: How did you measure summoning speed?

I measured the summoning speed using autohotkey, making a script that summons one object for me, then waits X milliseconds and then summons another.

For the different summoning speeds the wait times are the following:
100% = 1022ms
100%-30% = 728ms
100%-20%-30% = 588ms

The millisecond values are a little off from the exact percentages, depending on PC performance and other influences.
The "Master Summoner" summoning time of 70% is close enough to the ms value to say that it is the right summoning speed.

Also here, the two skills together are not substracting from the initial summoning speed but the calculations are in an order.
First it reduces the summoning time 20%, then it reduces another 30% of the already reduced summoning time.
This means it's not 50% of the summoning time but 56% of the summoning time.
56% of 1022 = 572.32 which is close enough to 588 for me to say that this is in fact also the right summoning speed.

Yes I got the range wrong and I see that now , there is one problem though , although I didn't use a ruler to measure the range it's still okay to not use pixels

6-100% x-20% x=1,2 So -20% range is 4,8 now 4,8-100% x-30% x=1,44 and that follows up to +30% range 6,24 and....

6-100% 6,24-x% 6x-624 and that is 104%

However the way I measured (NOT A RULER) was 6,2 cm not 6,24 cm.

BIG DEAL.

You just calculated the pixel measurements you didn't actually test them witch screenshots.

You chose pixel measurements because that way it would be a diffirent way of showing random gibberish.

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This is the same problem with speed. You created a script that shows what is the speed of the summoning not how fast the object is being summoned.

You just entered into the script the numbers for the calculations which just completely vanquishes your calculations

Internet speed has absolutely nothing to do with this. Even laggers.

My ping is 48-64 ms which is good in my opinion.

When laggers spawn something they don't see it being delayed they see it spawn as normal. That's why when my internet crashes I can still summon objects but they don't have movement. The game is designed that way.

We see it delayed not them.

Anyways back to math



100%-20%-30%

1-100% x-20% x=0,2 -20% speed is 0,8 Seconds 0,8-100% x-30% x=0,24 that leaves me with 0,56 seconds of summoning speed.

Nowhere close to my measurements of around 7-7,5 seconds.

BIG DEAL

"Nowhere close to my measurements of around 7-7,5 seconds." that's because you're maths is wrong. Percentages don't "stack" the way you seem to assume they do.

how can you have a unit of measurement like centimeters if you're not measuring your screen? You know your screen can give varying pixel outputs? 6cm on my screen may be thousands of pixels different than 6 cm on yours 'cos of resolution. When dealing with things in flash games, like collision or distance, you really have to use pixels else the measurement is void.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this thread. You've stated what you think the amounts should be, you have been told you've got to these amounts with incorrect maths and the correct maths has been shown, broken down, with workings out. You need to accept that you're method is flawed in this situation. Are you hoping that TFM changes it's skills so it matches your maths?

Skynanners a dit :

Yes I got the range wrong and I see that now , there is one problem though , although I didn't use a ruler to measure the range it's still okay to not use pixels

Of course it's ok to not use pixels but measure in cm, it's just more prone to errors if you do it that way. If you don't use a ruler to measure cm it's even more prone to errors so I'm not sure what you are trying to tell me. I wouldn't even know how to measure in cm without a ruler...

Skynanners a dit :

[...] and that is 104%

So if that is 104% we can agree that my calculation showed that there is no bug in the new distance? It's still up to the devs to decide whether they take the reduced range to add 30% more range or whether they take the initial one. It's just two different ways to do it.

Skynanners a dit :

You just calculated the pixel measurements you didn't actually test them witch screenshots.

What are you even on about? Of course I measured the pixels in the screenshots, I even said so in my last post:

Epifistu a dit :

... better use pixels from screenshots.
Doing this I got the following results of diameters:

Skynanners a dit :

This is the same problem with speed. You created a script that shows what is the speed of the summoning not how fast the object is being summoned.

There is no difference between the speed of summoning and how fast an object is summoned.

Skynanners a dit :

You just entered into the script the numbers for the calculations which just completely vanquishes your calculations

Yeah... No. The way the script works is the following:
It starts summoning object A and starts a wait time. When the wait time is over it starts summoning object B. If the wait time is too short it won't summon object A because it starts summoning object B already. The trick is to find the smallest value for the wait time that summons both objects. So yes, I do enter numbers into the script, but they indirectly measure the summoning time with the script.

Skynanners a dit :

Internet speed has absolutely nothing to do with this.

I know, and I never even said that. What I was saying is that the ms values I used in my script are a little off from the actual values because of PC performance. This means that the script isn't perfectly exact with milliseconds, however it is still much more accurate than using a stopwatch to measure the summoning time.

Skynanners a dit :

leaves me with 0,56 seconds of summoning speed.

Yeah, that's close enough to my result of 572 ms to say that it would be indeed the correct summoning time.

Skynanners a dit :

Nowhere close to my measurements of around 7-7,5 seconds.

I will ask for the third time now: How did you measure summoning speed?
Because frankly said, I doubt that your measurement of 7-7.5 seconds is remotely accurate.

they are not lies, you just either aren't doing them right or using them wrongly

Squirrelmows a dit :

"Nowhere close to my measurements of around 7-7,5 seconds." that's because you're maths is wrong. Percentages don't "stack" the way you seem to assume they do.

how can you have a unit of measurement like centimeters if you're not measuring your screen? You know your screen can give varying pixel outputs? 6cm on my screen may be thousands of pixels different than 6 cm on yours 'cos of resolution. When dealing with things in flash games, like collision or distance, you really have to use pixels else the measurement is void.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this thread. You've stated what you think the amounts should be, you have been told you've got to these amounts with incorrect maths and the correct maths has been shown, broken down, with workings out. You need to accept that you're method is flawed in this situation. Are you hoping that TFM changes it's skills so it matches your maths?

You should be given a nobel prize sir. I have no intent of even explaining how dumb that statement is.
...

Anyways Epfistu , when you said "Ohh so you agree with my Measurements I meant to show that its ok to not calculate things with pixels but. the next lines were. That 6.24cm is 104% BUT.

Skynanners a dit :

However the way I measured (NOT A RULER) was 6,2 cm not 6,24 cm.

You will probably reply to me and say that im wrong , but not because "Ohh you are so stupid" but , because I too didn't understand how you measured speed. The way I get it how you measured was

You calculated the data for the speed that I should be spawning in and played it on a script.

My measurements are not 100% ACURATE , but they are CLOSE.

I measured the speed about 20 times to make sure I was ok.

I measured the speed by first having no skills on myself redistributing all of them

I found that I was 1 Second , Then I updated my skills and measured the speed.

I hope that answer is good enough for you.


But im still not very clear on how YOU measured the speed.

I have a really hard time trying to understand what you are saying so before running the risk of talking completely out of context I will try to explain some things again and ask some questions:

If your measurements and my measurements say that the -20% +30% range ends up at 104% of the initial range it confirms my calculation. There is no doubt in this. Or do you have one?
I don't want to question your result of 6.2cm because I believe that on your screen this is indeed the range, but what I don't get is the following:
How do you get to a measurement of 6.2 cm if you don't use a ruler? I mean, how can you measure in cm if you don't use a ruler?

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You still didn't answer my question on how you measure the summoning speed. You said what method you used to have a difference between the summoning times but not how you measure the time. Of course you have to measure the time once for the fast summoning speed and then redistribute and measure again, otherwise any result would be blunt speculation.
I want to know how you measure time. For example, did you use a stopwatch? Did you take a video of your summoning and then see how much time it takes from the start to the end of the summoning? These are the kind of things I want to know.

I will try to explain my measurement again: My script is supposed to summon two objects
Imagine the course of actions in the script like the following. All actions are done by the script without me clicking the mouse or pressing a button:

If wait time1 is too short the mousebutton goes up before the summon was finished so plank1 won't be summoned. If wait time1 is the correct summoning time or larger than the correct summoning time both planks will be summoned. This means that the smallest millisecond value for wait time1 is in fact the summoning time because it is the shortest time which allows an object to be fully summoned.
I executed the script several times for the short summoning time to get the smallest value for wait time1 and several times for the long summoning time so I also get the smallest value here. These values are the results I presented in my post.

Is this a legitimate bug or is it just a complaint lol

Haruhitastic a dit :

Is this a legitimate bug or is it just a complaint lol

I dont know lol

I can't read it all to understand the problem here

I think my results in post #6 show that it's not a bug. Percentages of summoning time and range don't add up as one would expect them to add up but there is no mistake in the calculations.
I'll take the range as example:

100% normal range -20% reflex skill range +30% eagle eye skill range

Intuitively you would expect them to cancel each other out to a total of 110% summoning range.
However, they are calculated in an order: Taking away 20% range leaves us with 80% summoning range. Then adding 30% of this reduced range results in a range which is 104% of the initial one. The measurements showed that the actual summon range in game is indeed 104% of the initial one.

I put my screenshot in a photoshop program and measured a line from 1 end to another. and I got 6,200114707 CM.

Then in that same program I put a line that's 6,24cm long. And I overlayed both of the lines. The result was clear. At the tips of the lines there were marks of another color so my results were correct.

Now I measured speed by making a video of me summoning the object. I found a frame that has the first spawning segment in it. and Marked it.

And then I found a frame where the object was summoned. In the slider there were 2 markers. and the result was 7-7,5 Seconds BECAUSE

My program renders 720FPS There were about 289-370 Frames that were identical at the end when the object was summoned but there was no diffirence between those frames (Apart from the shaman's moving hands)

I don't know about the range, but what I do know is that summoning speed is normal in the Survivor module.

Just to confirm my script I recorded myself summoning.
Quick summoning time turned out to be 596ms
Slow/normal summoning turned out to be 995ms

You must have dome something wrong in your speed measurement if you measured 0.8s.
Actually, when I re-read your posts I am wondering what you were saying. What do the 7-7.5 seconds mean?

When i log in to my pro acc on tfm. I am no longer to distribute. It says that i need to wait 15 minutes. After i wait about 10-15 minutes it still says that i am not able to distribute. I reported the problem and i still have not gotten any help.

after a month of not being able to distibute i made a new acc. I have fraises and everything. I am upset

Back when i was an early gamer and i saw a sham i was all like ooh im get the wing then when i got the wings i sucked so bad im like this not what i wanted ;-; wings u lied to me