Right now, we're struggling to achieve a balance in standard rotation between newb friendliness and fun gameplay. Obviously easy isn't fun for skilled players, so many maps have to be dumbed down from their exciting, risky concepts to a more newb-friendly and rather repetitively dull imitation (such as lining P7s with the generic chocolate walljump).

Many maps suffer in gameplay from this balance, and some even simply cannot make it into rotation for the sake of less skilled players while skilled players are offered less challenge and fun in standard rotation.

Transformice is big and there are getting to be just as many skilled players as there are unskilled, and this single standard rotation cannot truly satisfy both.


It's time for Advanced Rotation!
Advanced rotation is a separate rotation from standard rotation containing more challenging maps that are too difficult for average players however fun and enjoyable for skilled players. This includes no-shaman maps (P7; racing) that include more difficult obstacles advanced players can do however beginners likely would not be able to, shaman maps (P4) that most shamans would fail at but skilled shamans would find a hard challenge that they can still complete (average room shaman maps), etc.

All stats and everything are the same in advanced rotation, the only difference is the maps that play. These will be ADVANCED maps for ADVANCED players.

Proposed Implementation - Part 1
Rooms playing this rotation would be just like numbered rooms, but with a + behind them. For example: room 1 would remain standard rotation and room 1+ would play advanced rotation.

Proposed Implementation - Part 2a
Rather than creating a new Px for every type of map, I propose a new "flag" for advanced maps. This would allow every current type of map to remain as they are and merely be filtered in and out of advanced and standard rotation--including P1. Any maps without this flag would be treated by default; maps with this flag would not appear in standard rotation and maps without it would not appear in advanced rotation. Additionally, for the few goldies that fit both standard and advanced, there could be a flag for both.
Flags would be:
0/undefined - standard rotation
1 - advanced rotation
2 - both

Proposed Implementation - Part 2b
Alternatively, new Pxs could be created. For the sake of simplicity, new Pxs would be Px+100, so P4 for advanced rotation would be P104, P7 would be P107, etc.

This sounds big... to big, I'm going to /no support

Lagiacruss a dit :

Nice layout and organization of your thoughts and idea Fxie!

This sounds like an excellent idea, and I know that I would enjoy it thoroughly, so I definitely support!

So with this new rotation, if people started making hard maps, they could submit them to say a new submission area in Map Submissions, specifically designated for Advanced Rotation?

I think for the sake of simplicity and since these would NOT be new types of maps (merely harder versions of existing types), they could be submitted to regular threads and simply be discussed for standard or advanced rotation from there.

Mousechris a dit :

This sounds big... to big, I'm going to /no support

Please don't post if you have nothing of value to contribute.

Fxie a dit :

Please don't post if you have nothing of value to contribute.

Thats only opinion, I feel it is to contribute.

Lagiacruss a dit :

That sounds good.
Chris, so what if something "sounds big"? The potential of this, in my opinion, will go a long way, maybe into the admins' minds and into the game.

You shouldn't "/no support" if all you are going to say is "too big". Size isn't an issue, as long as the idea is valid. (And that is excluding severely unlikey things that are purposefully made to be huge.)

I don't think you understand, theres a reason why admins only make servers if enough mice from X contry play this game. and this would be like adding a extra miniserver in every server known.

Besides that, please don't reply to my no supports, it won't even change my mind.

I guess you consider survivor and bootcamp and vanilla "miniservers" as well?

Lagiacruss a dit :

Sounds like you don't like criticism :/

No, I just find it a nuisance that people try to change the minds of those who /no support, it's a opinion, opinions are there for a reason.

I don't really care if you support or not. This isn't a poll, it's a discussion topic. Discuss or get it.

Back on topic please.

This is the type of ideas I expect the devs to take into consideration. I can't play in normal rooms anymore because they bore the hell out of me due to their complete lack of challenge.

I support.

I like the idea of this, and I think the admins would be able to add it pretty easily if they wanted to. It'd be fun to play with more advanced players to learn from them (like watching advanced shamans in /room shaman).

Me too, p4 guidelines kind of imply that maps need to be challenging and they need give a chance for newer shamans. Those too statements contradict each other so some shaman maps are kind of easy. This could be applied to some of the other categories as well and I see this working well! I think a challenge would be great. Support!

Fxie a dit :

-Opening Post-

I dont understand

It's becoming more and more painful to play with newbs.

Finalnova a dit :

Great idea!
Maybe getting double saves/cheese/firsts and limit the mice who can use it to more than "X" cheese.

Either way I support.

I don't think double stats is a good idea, but you did give me an interesting idea: a different points system.
In these rooms, perhaps you could get 20 points for first, 15 points for 2nd, and 10 points for 3rd on (making 1st and 2nd very rewarding, but at the cost of 3rd's consolation).

Also I think a cheese requirement to join these rooms might be an interesting idea too; say 10K cheese. Not sure about Tig going that far though (since everything else is pretty easy to implement).

Coming from rooms shaman and racing, I think this is an amazing idea with a good setup. Nowadays I usually spend all of my time in the tribe house so I can play difficult maps without a large number of mice around. The problem with that is, no cheese or saves.
/support.

This is just amazing, it is hard for me to find a challenging shaman map (room shaman is a bit too hard DX

But really, I'd love to see this implemented as an official part of the game.