Since the title isn't all that clear, this is my suggestion. Please remove the restriction where if you come late into a bootcamp room (Aka, after the round has started) That you have to complete the bootcamp map twice to make it count as one. Here is my reasoning before everyone yells at me.

First, it's extremely unfair to those of us who don't spend our lives in bootcamp, which composes the majority of tfm. I've seen many people get their first bootcamp or second or third, and get so happy only to realize that their hard work wasn't counted because of a system that wasn't meant to affect them.

Second, obviously if a person completed a map, it's because they worked hard and earned it, even for those who find bootcamps easy, they still deserve the point because they COMPLETED the map and the stat is called "Bootcamp maps completed."

Third, I find it hard to believe that a game that does not take trolling seriously (Which affects other players negatively), would take measures against farming, which affects nothing more than the person doing the farming in a positive way. After all, farmers are nothing more than people who put a lot of time and effort into the game and while yes, they may be annoying, if anything, it increases the amount of time players spend on tfm.

Logic would simply say to put a cap of 30 or 40 on bootcamp rooms, to prevent people from flooding a room and lagging the people who were originally there if an 'easy' bootcamp map comes on.


I personally have completed 8 bootcamp maps, 3 of which did not count because I came upon it too late.

Auroraclears a dit :

If the "bootcamp maps completed" stat was true to its name, it would be based entirely on completions of individual maps, but since that's currently not the case, people find bland, easy maps to get dozens of completions on because they're too lazy to actually learn to be good players. The current restriction is a fairly weak measure against that but I don't mind it being there since at least it shows that the developers don't approve of bootcamp farming.
The ideal solution would be to have two stats: one for individual completions, and another for total completions. One would emphasize the variety of maps in bootcamp and the other would provide replay value.

The limit is there for a reason.

"it increases the amount of time players spend on tfm."
Then they get their titles faster, and then what?

/half support

What makes bootcamp hard is how it is made. By enforcing the restriction to complete the map twice for it to start counting, the player will know what to do the next time they see the same map again. Your idea sounds great because it would be "the amount of bootcamps you regularly get + 1 × every map you completed."

However, I can get up to 50 bootcamps a dayat ease, so the restriction in bootcamp is not much of a mountain on my path.

Note:

frozacky a dit :

Note:

Spoiler

The bootcamp maps that are beyond regular "bootcamp-alike" hardness requires you to only complete it once for it to start counting.

False info. Irregardless of it's difficulty, if you show up while the map is playing you MUST complete it twice.

frozacky a dit :

However, I can get up to 50 bootcamps a dayat ease, so the restriction in bootcamp is not much of a mountain on my path.

This is my point, the restriction isn't really affecting the people it was meant to affect, meaning farmers and the such, the only people I see it affecting are regular players for whom 1 bootcamp is a big deal.

Haruhitastic a dit :

The limit is there for a reason.

Yes, and I stated the reason, why I believe it should be removed, and proposed a new solution. Point?

The point is just that. It's there for a reason. It shouldn't be removed just because someone can't complete boot camp maps more than twice.
Want more titles? Practice more, Don't propose a change that will make things easier for hackers and megafarmers.

xenguy a dit :

I've seen many people get their first bootcamp or second or third, and get so happy only to realize that their hard work wasn't counted because of a system that wasn't meant to affect them.

I think this is a very important point, and one that could be addressed with relative ease. The target here is to discourage farming. Generally farming means that people acquire large amounts of bootcamp completions. I think as such it should be considered to only apply this rule once people have completed a few bootcamps. Basically a stat requirement that makes sure new players don't get discouraged over this. This way new players won't be targeted whereas more experienced players are either skilled enough to complete a map twice or experienced enough to know to stick to their room.

xenguy a dit :

Logic would simply say to put a cap of 30 or 40 on bootcamp rooms, to prevent people from flooding a room and lagging the people who were originally there if an 'easy' bootcamp map comes on.

I think this would be a pretty decent anti-farming measure, but it's possible that people actually want to create bigger groups. Perhaps this would work if it's only applied to the normally numbered bootcamp rooms and not the player-created ones. Again this way new players can play in peace whereas experienced players can create big rooms if they want to.

If the "bootcamp maps completed" stat was true to its name, it would be based entirely on completions of individual maps, but since that's currently not the case, people find bland, easy maps to get dozens of completions on because they're too lazy to actually learn to be good players. The current restriction is a fairly weak measure against that but I don't mind it being there since at least it shows that the developers don't approve of bootcamp farming.
The ideal solution would be to have two stats: one for individual completions, and another for total completions. One would emphasize the variety of maps in bootcamp and the other would provide replay value.

Haruhitastic a dit :

frozacky a dit :VoirMasquer

Note:

Spoiler

The bootcamp maps that are beyond regular "bootcamp-alike" hardness requires you to only complete it once for it to start counting.

False info. Irregardless of it's difficulty, if you show up while the map is playing you MUST complete it twice.

No, some maps only needed to be completed one time for it to start counting. I might be wrong if it was counting from my previous encounters with the same map.

EDIT:
I just came up with an idea while playing bootcamp today.
Why not have the system award new players that are in bootcamp for trying it out? Let the award be at least a title like <<Brave>> to make the young ones of bootcamp feel accomplishment. The system can then lay down the restriction to discourage the player from doing bootcamp.

frozacky a dit :

Haruhitastic a dit :VoirMasquer

frozacky a dit :VoirMasquer

Note:

Spoiler

The bootcamp maps that are beyond regular "bootcamp-alike" hardness requires you to only complete it once for it to start counting.

False info. Irregardless of it's difficulty, if you show up while the map is playing you MUST complete it twice.

No, some maps only needed to be completed one time for it to start counting. I might be wrong if it was counting from my previous encounters with the same map.

Considering maps are dropped into P3 or P13 and have varying difficulties, I can't believe this is fact. I'd like a staff member to confirm.

Auroraclears a dit :

The ideal solution would be to have two stats: one for individual completions, and another for total completions. One would emphasize the variety of maps in bootcamp and the other would provide replay value.

I could definitely dig this.
Since they're so into stat bars, why not an "individual completion" one?

Auroraclears a dit :

The ideal solution would be to have two stats: one for individual completions, and another for total completions. One would emphasize the variety of maps in bootcamp and the other would provide replay value.

That sounds very great but then they would still have to complete the map. Instead of individual completions, why not individual encounterings with a variety of maps that won't exactly count to the player's stat?

Haruhitastic a dit :

Considering maps are dropped into P3 or P13 and have varying difficulties, I can't believe this is fact. I'd like a staff member to confirm.

That could actually happen if there was better organized/defined distinction between P3 and P13. For example, the former is defined as "original/highly enjoyable maps" yet 90% of that category is neither of those things. But that's a separate issue altogether.

frozacky a dit :

That sounds very great but then they would still have to complete the map. Instead of individual completions, why not individual encounterings with a variety of maps that won't exactly count to the player's stat?

While I agree that bootcamp is more about attempting to complete every single map as opposed to outright completing them, I hardly think rewarding people for being AFK in public bootcamp rooms is the right way to go about emphasizing that. Now, if there was a way to track progress across individual maps something like that could possibly work, but I really doubt that'll ever happen.

Auroraclears a dit :

Haruhitastic a dit :VoirMasquer

Considering maps are dropped into P3 or P13 and have varying difficulties, I can't believe this is fact. I'd like a staff member to confirm.

That could actually happen if there was better organized/defined distinction between P3 and P13. For example, the former is defined as "original/highly enjoyable maps" yet 90% of that category is neither of those things. But that's a separate issue altogether.

frozacky a dit :VoirMasquer

That sounds very great but then they would still have to complete the map. Instead of individual completions, why not individual encounterings with a variety of maps that won't exactly count to the player's stat?

While I agree that bootcamp is more about attempting to complete every single map as opposed to outright completing them, I hardly think rewarding people for being AFK in public bootcamp rooms is the right way to go about emphasizing that. Now, if there was a way to track progress across individual maps something like that could possibly work, but I really doubt that'll ever happen.

For the award part, it should be earned after earning the cheese but died. However for the AFK part, I do agree with you about having a tracking system but we should have something that auto-video tapes popular bootcamp rooms so staff members can award the new players with "witness" and discover hackers.

Haruhitastic a dit :

The point is just that. It's there for a reason. It shouldn't be removed just because someone can't complete boot camp maps more than twice.
Want more titles? Practice more, Don't propose a change that will make things easier for hackers and megafarmers.

I don't think you've read any of the solutions that have been proposed. My goal is to make people rethink this system, because it's already easy for farmers and hackers to get over, leaving the new players who actually practice and try to comeplete with the short end of the stick. Also, please don't tell me to not 'ppropose a change', reading over the rules I believe I have every right to post a legitimate and serious suggestion thread.

Auroraclears a dit :

If the "bootcamp maps completed" stat was true to its name, it would be based entirely on completions of individual maps, but since that's currently not the case, people find bland, easy maps to get dozens of completions on because they're too lazy to actually learn to be good players. The current restriction is a fairly weak measure against that but I don't mind it being there since at least it shows that the developers don't approve of bootcamp farming.
The ideal solution would be to have two stats: one for individual completions, and another for total completions. One would emphasize the variety of maps in bootcamp and the other would provide replay value.

I think this is also a good idea, it would discourage farmers because it points them out quickly, and get new players into the groove of actually trying every map instead of looking for easy ones, I have added this into the op.

xenguy a dit :

I think this is also a good idea, it would discourage farmers because it points them out quickly, and get new players into the groove of actually trying every map instead of looking for easy ones, I have added this into the op.

You are pratically pulling down the axe. The whole point of bootcamp is to actually discourage new or pro players though. Attempting variety of maps don't mean much becauce anyone can attemp new stuffs they don't know and bootcamp rewards are meant for people who completed some of its maps at least. :o

Auroraclears a dit :

The ideal solution would be to have two stats: one for individual completions, and another for total completions. One would emphasize the variety of maps in bootcamp and the other would provide replay value.

*Cough cough* somebody suggested it and got completely ignored

frozacky a dit :

For the award part, it should be earned after earning the cheese but died.

Cue 50 mice coming into the room to /mort spam on any maps that start with you having cheese.

Auroraclears a dit :

frozacky a dit :VoirMasquer

For the award part, it should be earned after earning the cheese but died.

Cue 50 mice coming into the room to /mort spam on any maps that start with you having cheese.

Like I said, there should be a surveillance camera that vedio tapes the popular rooms. ^

Why not have a mod in each of the popular bootcamp rooms like:
cheeseformice bootcamp
bootcamp (top popular)
bootcamp1 (top popular)
bootcamp2
bootcamp3

No support, I really like this feature and it's really the only countermeasure to farming that we have at the moment. If you want to get more completions and titles, spend more time in bootcamp.

Jamiison a dit :

No support, I really like this feature and it's really the only countermeasure to farming that we have at the moment. If you want to get more completions and titles, spend more time in bootcamp.

There is no point of staying in bootcamp all day long if you don't have the "skills" to do it.