So one trend I've noticed lately is that many of the older, more challenging bootcamp maps have been getting depermed or simply made easier.While some people do prefer easier bootcamps, I feel that it's generally meant to be a mode that challenges you, and for many older players, as well as newer players who enjoy practicing harder maps, that sense of challenge is diminished. For that reason I feel like it's long overdue that bootcamp as a mode was split into several modes of varying difficulty levels. This way, players who are more comfortable with easy maps could stay in the "easier" bootcamp rooms while those of us who prefer harder bootcamps would go to harder rooms, in addition to the map rotation being expanded with even more difficult maps. How this would work out statwise I'm still not entirely sure, but I guess harder maps could count as multiple completions.
Any thoughts?

EDIT: Going off other people's suggestions I'd propose a reworked bootcamp rotation: instead of the already ill-defined P3 and P13 categories, we'd have P3 (Easy Bootcamp), P13 (Medium Bootcamp), P23 (Hard Bootcamp) and potentially P33 (Expert Bootcamp)

How the maps would be organized: most of the current bootcamp rotation would be classified as P13. P3 would include the easier-end maps currently in rotation (ie most farm maps) and miscellaneous maps deemed too easy for bootcamp while P23 would have the harder-end current maps and maps deemed too hard for bootcamp. P33 would potentially be included as an expert mode for really insanely difficult maps. There would be stat categories on your profile for all 3 (4?) categories, similarly to how shaman saves are organized by difficulty on your profile.
The rotation would probably either be P13/P3/P13/P23 or, with the inclusion of P33 as a category, P13/P3/P13/P23/P13/P3/P13/P23/P33; feel free to suggest other rotation plans though.

nah let's keep it simple. just like how shaman maps can vary in difficulty.

I'd completely go no-support with this.
However, maybe during the time of easier bootcamps, you wouldn't earn any stats with it, they would just be practice rounds. Then I'd might go half-support.
I currently enjoy the difficulty and luck of the map rotation of our current bootcamp.

Especially, the fact that it combines with the difficult bootcamps I've already accomplished. Plus, on the amount of bootcamps we already have, I don't like the idea of combining easy maps to difficult maps. New mice would get, let's say, 25 bootcamps, until they can't complete a specific map. Then they'd still have 25 bootcamps.

Yeah I'm a little confused on what I'm saying up there, but what I'm trying to say is, bootcamp is difficult for a reason and should not have specific levels.

Shadowtrophy a dit :

nah let's keep it simple. just like how shaman maps can vary in difficulty.

This.

Shadowtrophy a dit :

nah let's keep it simple. just like how shaman maps can vary in difficulty.

For the record, there is already a minigame for higher-end shaman maps that are considered "too difficult" for normal shaman rotation.
No such minigame exists for bootcamp, and the lack of a more difficult bootcamp mode discourages people from making and submitting maps that are somewhat more difficult than those in rotation, especially now that some of the older hard maps have been getting removed, or made easier.
If not an official mode, I'd be happy with a "hard bootcamp module" where maps that are deemed to difficult for bootcamp rotation would get played.

Shadowtrophy a dit :

nah let's keep it simple. just like how shaman maps can vary in difficulty.

I agree. Vanilla is mostly for new mice and lazy ppl (no offense) although I'm lazy also. "Transformice" (but I want to call it "normal" ;-;) is a little more difficult. Bootcamp is for more difficult no-shaman maps.

/support

The easier bootcamp rooms would be attacked with constant farmers whereas the harder maps would be nearly empty.
I go /nosupport for this whatsoever.

Diamondwing a dit :

However, maybe during the time of easier bootcamps, you wouldn't earn any stats with it, they would just be practice rounds.

I practice bootcamp in my utility room all the time. I think this would be unnecessary.

I think this would be a good solution to the everlasting discussion that bootcamp maps are considered too hard or too easy. As long as the differences between the two categories are properly defined (when is something an easy map, when is something a hard map?) there should certainly be a way to please everyone. But instead of categorizing maps, you could also think of something like shorten the amount of time to complete a bootcamp map, or use increased gravity or wind when playing in a more difficult game mode (which is similar to the idea that when you're a hard mode or divine mode shaman, you also have to deal with harder circumstances).

tl;dr I support this.

natrats a dit :

The easier bootcamp rooms would be attacked with constant farmers whereas the harder maps would be nearly empty.
I go /nosupport for this whatsoever.

As far as farming is concerned, I guess a more viable alternative might be to leave the current bootcamp mode as it is, in addition to adding a harder mode as well. Maybe a separate "hard bootcamp" stat could be added to the new mode as well if it's necessary to generate interest.

Auroraclears a dit :

natrats a dit :VoirMasquer

The easier bootcamp rooms would be attacked with constant farmers whereas the harder maps would be nearly empty.
I go /nosupport for this whatsoever.

As far as farming is concerned, I guess a more viable alternative might be to leave the current bootcamp mode as it is, in addition to adding a harder mode as well. Maybe a separate "hard bootcamp" stat could be added to the new mode as well if it's necessary to generate interest.

I'm starting to warm up to this version to your original idea, instead of having two separate modes of hard and easy. Adding a hard bootcamp mode with the original bootcamp left alone would be successful imo with it's own set of rewards to attract bootcampers out of their comfort zone and into a newer, yet more difficult mode of bootcamp.
/support to this version

Im not going to support this. The hard difficulty (and the no sham) makes bootcamp, bootcamp. if it was easier, than it would be called shoecamp (im sorry (no im not))

TL:DR: it hard and easy enough. /nosupport

dracometeor0 a dit :

Im not going to support this. The hard difficulty (and the no sham) makes bootcamp, bootcamp. if it was easier, than it would be called shoecamp (im sorry (no im not))

TL:DR: it hard and easy enough. /nosupport

So what rotation would you propose the maps that are deemed just slightly too hard to be bootcamp would go?
Like I said, I'd be happy with a minigame or even a utility module if it meant the rotation could be broadened.

I support this but if they made categories for maps they should also make categories in the profile.

Bootcamps completed:

Easy: 53429
Medium: 20231
Expert: 1034
Super Expert: 50

You might recognize the categories' names from Super Mario Maker. I think using the same method this game uses to put the maps in each category would be the best idea. The game assigns a difficulty to each level according to the clear rate / completion rate. There could be normal bootcamp rooms that play all kinds of maps including those without a set difficulty yet. And then there could be rooms where you could play maps from a specific category.

So there's no need for the staff to actually determine and decide the difficulty level of each map.

If you make categories without adding these to the profile then people who want stats will only play easy maps and they'll miss the point.

Personally I'd rather not have any easy maps at all in bootcamp, these maps are indeed missing the point.

/support

Just go to vanilla like all the beginners should?

anyways /no support..

Catsloveraj a dit :

Just go to vanilla like all the beginners should?

anyways /no support..

I was not aware higher-difficulty bootcamp maps were added to the vanilla rotation @_@

Hinakagiyama a dit :

I support this but if they made categories for maps they should also make categories in the profile.

Bootcamps completed:

Easy: 53429
Medium: 20231
Expert: 1034
Super Expert: 50

You might recognize the categories' names from Super Mario Maker. I think using the same method this game uses to put the maps in each category would be the best idea. The game assigns a difficulty to each level according to the clear rate / completion rate. There could be normal bootcamp rooms that play all kinds of maps including those without a set difficulty yet. And then there could be rooms where you could play maps from a specific category.

So there's no need for the staff to actually determine and decide the difficulty level of each map.

If you make categories without adding these to the profile then people who want stats will only play easy maps and they'll miss the point.

Personally I'd rather not have any easy maps at all in bootcamp, these maps are indeed missing the point.

Couldn't agree more.

I never completed a single bootcamp map, and I never tried hard for one. I've always hated bootcamp.

So I'm kinda supporting what that user said if the creator of this suggestion confirms it.

Dijz a dit :

I never completed a single bootcamp map, and I never tried hard for one. I've always hated bootcamp.

So I'm kinda supporting what that user said if the creator of this suggestion confirms it.

The only reason I didn't propose Hina's suggestion in the first place is because I felt having different bootcamp stat categories would clutter up the profile. Then again, they did manage to fit three different shaman difficulty levels there so it isn't that impossible. So yes, 100% support.

Hinakagiyama a dit :

The game assigns a difficulty to each level according to the clear rate / completion rate. There could be normal bootcamp rooms that play all kinds of maps including those without a set difficulty yet. And then there could be rooms where you could play maps from a specific category.

So there's no need for the staff to actually determine and decide the difficulty level of each map.

If you make categories without adding these to the profile then people who want stats will only play easy maps and they'll miss the point.

Personally I'd rather not have any easy maps at all in bootcamp, these maps are indeed missing the point.

The problem with this is that an automated system can in no way judge the difficulty of a map, because difficulty is a subjective thing. What is a difficult map to one, can be an easy map to another. A difficult map can have a lot of completions if it has a short completion time and is played by experienced players. While at the same time, an easy map can have very few completions because it takes much longer to complete. Map crew have been judging maps for a long time, I don't see why this can't be added in the bootcamp reviewing process.

/No Support

If you want to practice bootcamp that isn't as hard as normal bootcamp, there's racing. It's sorta like a mini-bootcamp. Many maps have corner jumps and stuff like that. But actual Bootcamp is for experienced players for a reason.

Diamondwing a dit :

However, maybe during the time of easier bootcamps, you wouldn't earn any stats with it, they would just be practice rounds. Then I'd might go half-support.

This ^^