Shadowwinter a dit :

You mean people using c4 to get cheap kills and camp the flag with it? In other words making the game turn into cheap4 delux rather then Forteresse?

The c4 really shouldn't do any damage and only destroy terrain and push people away, it'd give it a unique purpose while still being useful rather then making the mine completely obsolete and just making the game very, very boring to play just because people plant c4 EVERYWHERE.

Shadowwinter a dit :

Okay let me rephrase what I just said.

C4 = 35 damage. Let's say there were 10 players on each team, and every player on the defending team had C4 as a perk considering it's only 100 potatoes. All 10 players put C4 on the flag area and set 1 or 2 off everytime the attacker(s) got close. The c4 really doesn't have much of a cool down so there'd always be c4 on the flag, even with a minimal amount of players and even if players did die, by the time they respawned and got back to the flag the c4 would have been ready again.

C4 was not meant to be used this way, clearly. It's over-powered and again makes the mine obsolete. The mine is a bit more controlled considering users can't set it off at will and an enemy actually has the chance of avoiding it and you have to avoid it yourself meaning it's a bit more balanced for gameplay. You could mine-stack the flag but I see it a lot less likely to happen.

In reality however, there's always at least 3~5 C4 on the flag at all times. People using it to specificly kill players is starting to get rather annoying because it's taking away all the gun skill in the game. It's very useful for destroying terrain and bunker-busting barriers to help capture the flag but it starts getting out of hand when people purposely suicide bomb.

Also the more kills at once means the less defence/attacking power - Which can lead to your team either winning or losing the game.

Shadowwinter a dit :

Yes using a gun you can kill maybe 1 or 2 players and possibly more if you have /skill/, but c4 can kill an awful a lot of people without even having to try (I've seen someone get 7 kills before).

Let me factor in some respawn times, which can be from 5~12 seconds depending on how long you were alive. Time is very precious and when one person can take out an entire army in one blow, you might as well say it's game over because by the time you respawn there's a huge possibility the flag could be captured or at the very least very well defended by the attacking team. The thing is too, this happens very often.

Let's not mention all the trolling that goes on with it, either.

Shadowwinter a dit :

The game is evolving, and everything else is going good except that over-powered perk. There's a reason I call it cheap4 and over-powered. You also ignore the fact that it cancles out another perk that seems a lot more reasonable to replace this perk with. I'm suggesting a change for it so it'll have it's own unique purpose rather then making the current and any future perks seem useless compared to it.

Also, it's called feedback. If people didn't give constructive feedback we'd have over-powered and under-powered guns and various other problems. Everyone would end up using the samething because it's the only reasonable choice. That's why there's balance and not one thing is amazing at everything.

I do know that there was a point that everyone had the same gun, and everything, but do keep in mind that there was balance as everyone was on the same level and people had to rely on skill to win gun fights and the game. People still do but C4 really dampens the skill gap.

Shadowwinter a dit :

Did you know a gun can only hit one person, while a C4 can hit multiple people? And that the explosion radious is actually almost as big as the flag's capture area?

I'm not going to continue this discussion any further if you keep missing my points entirely. I'm not going to repeat myself nor my points anymore after I've explained them multiple times.

Shadowwinter a dit :

And it's all over the flag, yeah let me just avoid the objective as I wait to die by enemy players shooting me instead and not make /any/ progress towards capturing it because there's not really any real way to counter it unless I want to waste one of my perk slots which I could have something a lot more valuable. It's unavoidable when it's in a place you need to be and if people don't run over it they're never going to set it off and by the time it sets itself off that's already a lot of time wasted and there's already more there.


2 seconds, and I've seen more then enough suicide bombers succeed because players are already engaged in a battle trying to defend a flag, and it isn't always easy trying to escape with players shooting you as well as that it isn't that easy to notice when it's behind your entire team that's on the flag defending and you're focusing on other things.


That's why it can wipe out literally the entire defending team becuase of it's ridiculously high damage and once again, nothing to really counter it ! At least with all the other perks there's a small area of effect which you have to stand in which can be a serious drawback or it alters your character for a small amount of time. Not something that can sit on the map for ages and do quite a lot of destruction, why do you think everyone uses C4 so much compared to other perks? Explain to me how it isn't over-powered compared to the other perks.


Or it's becuase they were defending the flag and don't really have much of a place to run considering most flags are barried underground and there's a constant wave of players /always/ coming in at you making it near impossible to even escape as I've said before.


A player has to walk over it to trigger it so of course it's going to be a guaranteed kill, and I still find it a lot better then C4 in all cases while it still actually keeps the game a bit more fair.


I'm pretty sure people know how to use it or else they wouldn't be suicide bombing people in the first place, camping the flag, destroying terrain and bunker busting, and if you want to count what I use it for then using it to blast you across the map to get to places quicker.

If this is only the beginning then I don't even want to know where it's going to end with it's ridiculousness. Even 30 damage is too much and it should probably be knocked down to 20 or at least have a longer cool-down. Maybe something like 30 seconds considering how powerful it already is. I'd really would have expected this perk to have a longer cool-down time then the medkit.

Edit: Or they could make a perk called a defuse kit, that just keeps c4 in a small area from exploding for 5 seconds and then exploding once the time has passed making people have to think about where they place it while it continues to have it's uses.

My only real complaint is that there's not really anything that counters it right now and if there were to be something that did I wouldn't mind it being the way it is.

Windjumper a dit :

Why defence/attacker+ is not working? Is it bug? Fixing the bug before discussing C4.

And C4 should be 300~400 potatos as you can see the skin is very expensive.

And i heard there has zombie, what is it and when will it come?

Xtrollfoxx a dit :

Well from what i have been seeing many of you consider nerfing it? WELL, if we lets say made it do no damage then what is it to be a a C4? C4s definetly do damage in real life and it wouldn't make sense..

Shadowwinter a dit :

Nothing in this game makes sense, it's a game for a reason so really using this argument is very very invalid considering we can already take multiple shots from guns (especially the LMG and Sniper) as well as humans becoming invincible and sponging so many bullets that'd probably leave you a pool of grinded meat if it were real life. Let alone a lot of other things.

Regardless if it wasn't originally supposed to be in the game it is now and players are still having to deal with it. I don't think the admins (developers) plan on removing it anytime soon although it is a very very rare possibility that they do altogether.

It doesn't really concern me that something was added that players liked for a while then figured out later that they didn't, and then complained and nothing was ever done about it. Honestly, just look Bouboum. What really concerns me is that this game might possibly be taking the same route as Bouboum, however that's a different discussion for another time.

As for now though, players should just start using invincibility to counter it because it renders C4 literally useless the majority of the time but it really doesn't change the fact that it's still highly over-powered. At least till something's done about it.