Since this seems to keep being brought up in a few discussions as of late, I'm just going to make a post so people will hopefully discuss it here instead.

We all know this game isn't perfect. But while most of the problems are taken in stride, one of the more widely discussed issues is the player behavior of stat farming. For people who use stats, no matter the reason, the idea of stat farming can be a real nuisance, as it not only potentially corrupts that player's stats, but is often considered to lessen the achievements of others' stats obtained through more direct means.

For the purposes of this thread, most stat farming/stat padding is to increase the kill:death ratio, with the main types of stat farming I know of being:

• Multiple accounts method: This involves using friends / unique accounts on a variety of IP address to use as "target practice", quickly getting stats with no chance of death.
• Morting: Since morting doesn't count as a death, when a player is close to death (or maybe low on health and clips), they will mort to avoid a death stat increase, while retaining all their kills. (While this method can fall in a bit more of a grey area, I'll leave that up to all of you to discuss)
• Playing in rooms were you have an advantage (do to players present, a more lax atmosphere, etc). Not necessarily on purpose.

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Rules: NO NAMES, no flaming, no trolling. In short, be polite.

Also, this thread in no way supports/condones stat farming, blablabla...

There's farming and stat-padding on every A801 game whether it be intentional or not, from playing in private rooms with friends to just being in regular rooms. There's no real way to stop it and honestly I don't understand why people get so huffy over something like this when they know the person's been stat-padding/farming. There's no real reason to be mad because if you're playing the game legit then you're being a better player by doing so in general.

Stats mean absolutely nothing as random as they are to get, no one can really control how or what happens to their stats. It's like you're sitting on the flag and you get killed right before your team captures it, you couldn't help that but you just lost a capture because of it. I'm kind of distracted right now so if none of this makes sense I'm sorry.

Stats mean nothing unless you have the skill to show for it.

I have great stats in other games but you will not get clicked by others who want to see your stats unless you put up an effort to get people to notice you.

As for the incoming rankings system, the only ones who will notice your stats are the people who actually put in the time to see who's up top, which is about 20% of people. The other 80% of the recognition you will get is by playing in public rooms and showing people why you deserve to be recognized.

The thing that bothers me is how some of the pros in old fortoresse are now stat padding. Its lke whats the need to have to stat pad if you're already good to show the skill. A person would only look at your stats if you show that you have great skill. As for morting, some people may mort but miss the chance to kill even more. For ex. If i were on low hp, i could mort. BUT there is a chance for me to pick up toilet paper and kill some more Maybe even a vip. People who do not have a good ratio with kills and deaths (its just the math) but is still because they shows their skill. No reason for them to stat pad. kills aren't everything. And there are ways o make kills look good and still have good stats for other categories. It requires 8 people for a true vip kill to count. So friends in one room method would apply. So if i saw a person with 9999 kills but 999 deaths and 200 vip kills. I wouldn't exactly say that they worked for that. As for player advantages its nothing that we can fix.

There is nothing that can be done about this, and it happens in many games. I just try to ignore it and have fun, rather than be insanely annoyed like I used to be

I agree with most of what the people above me have said. There is really no way to somehow 'stop' this but to only get over it and understand that it's not a big deal, even if sometimes it can be really annoying to know that someone is purposely doing it.

Why is it that we all have that feeling to show off to other people? Why do we sometimes feel that we are superior to others?

As for myself, I've pretty much learned to not look at profiles way to much because they don't tell how good or bad you are at all; all they are able to show is how much time you have put into a game. To me, I don't believe there is any reason to actually put so much effort in a game that is just going to shut down sooner or later so you might as well play for fun till it lasts.

Let's be honest. The only reason why we get mad at Stat Farmers is because they get fame for having good profile stats. I can't even count the number of times I've shaken my head at the people getting "famous" for farming. 99% of everyone hating stat farmers is because we want attention that we think we deserve. The fight for attention... I would also like to add that it's just a game. No one is dying over this, calm down. It's all just a wall of bullshit that most game communities/forums have.

Thesnailgary a dit :

There is nothing that can be done about this, and it happens in many games. I just try to ignore it and have fun, rather than be insanely annoyed like I used to be

One thing : remove stat.

It's already too late to be removing stats without many people be enraged about it, and even without stats it doesn't change the whole corrupt fame scene that's really gone to some people's heads, I won't point fingers however.

The only way to win the game is to not play the game at all. One of my favorite quotes that applies greatly to this situation.

There are no winners huh? XD anyway I still think it is a problem that can be annoying, but only if you let it annoy you. In what i've seen, lots of gamers are the jealous type, and always try to be better than others. I think this is the reason for this, (myself included), but competition is what makes it fun. In this case though, the competition is useless, so might as well just ignore it.

Shadowwinter a dit :

It's already too late to be removing stats without many people be enraged about it, and even without stats it doesn't change the whole corrupt fame scene that's really gone to some people's heads, I won't point fingers however.

The only way to win the game is to not play the game at all. One of my favorite quotes that applies greatly to this situation.

Exactly, but only the smart people would judge a person's skill based on actions. Sadly most people who aren't as good would look at a mediocre's stats then say their pro. Luckily there are people who a pro through actions and when those people see them they now change their minds

I approve morting since it not only saves you from adding a death to your profile, but also saves time to help your team more efficiently. There are times where it may be better to take the risk and continue playing with the low health or ammo so that you can kill that extra enemy or lower their health, and there are times where /mort is simply the best idea.

I got used to morting and do it quite a lot but still I don't consider myself a statpadder, I do it for the strategy for the most part, not for the stats. I have to admit I might abuse it a bit sometimes but I can't help it, it's kind of amusing to see your enemies get angry when they're about to get an easy kill and you just /mort.

Bug, exploit, and abuse.

Three words that should come to a player's mind when using the Mort command in Fortoresse, and that's all that needs to be said about it. I don't see it not counting as a death to be intentional but that should be bluntly obvious since we have perks to combat losing health and ammo, especially when a team mate/enemy dies that have these perks.

I don't see why players seek this option even for it's "strategic purpose" -- To be honest you have a better chance of killing the enemy and getting health and ammo pick ups rather then killing yourself and waiting however long to respawn. You not being in the battle even with your low ammo or low health can easily cause you team a lot of trouble, especially if you're entire team is doing what you are.

Besides that I find it really hard to go negative in kills compared to deaths, and to be honest even if they do fix this bug it's already too late to wipe stats without a lot of people being extremely displeased.

shadowwinter a dit :

Bug, exploit, and abuse.

Three words that should come to a player's mind when using the Mort command in Fortoresse, and that's all that needs to be said about it. I don't see it not counting as a death to be intentional but that should be bluntly obvious since we have perks to combat losing health and ammo, especially when a team mate/enemy dies that have these perks.

I don't see why players seek this option even for it's "strategic purpose" -- To be honest you have a better chance of killing the enemy and getting health and ammo pick ups rather then killing yourself and waiting however long to respawn. You not being in the battle even with your low ammo or low health can easily cause you team a lot of trouble, especially if you're entire team is doing what you are.

Besides that I find it really hard to go negative in kills compared to deaths, and to be honest even if they do fix this bug it's already too late to wipe stats without a lot of people being extremely displeased.

I doubt its a bug, even so it will only count as a death if many people complain. I do agree that you would have a chance to get more kills when low on hp. Saying that i dont understand why "fixing" this bug would be good. I also do agree with the person above you with strategic usage. For EX. During vip matches when you're too far away from vip and he/she is getting beat up you can easily mort and revive 5-9 seconds later with full hp, ammo, and invincible for some seconds. And don't forget, if you're stuck you can always use mort command without having to take a death that was not deserved.

It's a bug because the command is behaving in an unintended way by not adding to your death stat when you've clearly died, whether it be a simple mistake made in the coding or an actual error. The reason why people complain about this is because there's little to no punishment, the least they could do is make it count towards your deaths and maybe make the respawn 3~5 seconds longer for suicide.

There's no such thing as an unfair death; only mistakes and cheap kills. If you get yourself stuck in the top of the map you should have been more careful with where you were conjuring, if the enemy gets you stuck then they more often then not deserve the kill, and lastly if you get sent off into the void there's nothing that could have been done to prevent it anyways unless you've bunker'd down with conjure all around you and the enemy just happened to conjure you out.

It doesn't change the fact that /mort is a death and should be counted as one, play the game legit, if you find yourself losing all your ammo and health then take the health and ammo perks; they're there for a reason.

shadowwinter a dit :

It's a bug because the command is behaving in an unintended way by not adding to your death stat when you've clearly died, whether it be a simple mistake made in the coding or an actual error. The reason why people complain about this is because there's little to no punishment, the least they could do is make it count towards your deaths and maybe make the respawn 3~5 seconds longer for suicide.

There's no such thing as an unfair death; only mistakes and cheap kills. If you get yourself stuck in the top of the map you should have been more careful with where you were conjuring, if the enemy gets you stuck then they more often then not deserve the kill, and lastly if you get sent off into the void there's nothing that could have been done to prevent it anyways unless you've bunker'd down with conjure all around you and the enemy just happened to conjure you out.

It doesn't change the fact that /mort is a death and should be counted as one, play the game legit, if you find yourself losing all your ammo and health then take the health and ammo perks; they're there for a reason.

You clearly haven't read everything that i have said. I said that it can be used as a strategy. Ammo perks and hp perks or even toilet paper will take some time and effort but morting will get you there easier. Yes i do agree there should be a punishment for it. Not sure if their going to do something about it but morting can still be used for better tactics.

shadowwinter a dit :

I don't see why players seek this option even for it's "strategic purpose" -- To be honest you have a better chance of killing the enemy and getting health and ammo pick ups rather then killing yourself and waiting however long to respawn. You not being in the battle even with your low ammo or low health can easily cause you team a lot of trouble, especially if you're entire team is doing what you are.

You're defending the flag, you just killed a wave of enemies and you know they won't come back for a while, but you have only 2 HP left and no ammo, and none of your team mates are helping, I think it's fairly obvious in that situation that morting is the best alternative. You have to wait some seconds to respawn but so do the enemies, when they come back to attack you'll be ready with full health to resist and defend your flag.

Also, you have situations like the one Holis mentioned, where you're too far away from the action and it's a better idea to kill yourself to move to the right place, and at the same time recover your health and ammo. Why look for an enemy to kill you when you can simply /mort?

I don't know what weapons you might usually use but for the most part I'm a SPAS user, I run out of ammo quickly and, to me, /mort has proven to be a really useful and strategic tool. Whether it's a cheap way for statpadders to get a good kills/deaths ratio or not, is an entirely different matter and doesn't change this fact.
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I don't see this bug as an unintended feature, but more like something that they never considered when they programmed the way the stats work. Perhaps they didn't even remember /mort existed when profiles were added. But /mort is there. I've been using /mort in bootcamp (TFM) since the command was first discovered and I've always seen it as a way to save time and play more efficiently, same thing in FTR.

Am I supposed to not use a feature in the game just because it's adding stats to my profile (which I don't care about for the most part)?

My whole point here is that /mort is not just for the statpadders out there, it's a valid feature and a useful one (at least for some people).

hinakagiyama a dit :

You're defending the flag, you just killed a wave of enemies and you know they won't come back for a while, but you have only 2 HP left and no ammo, and none of your team mates are helping, I think it's fairly obvious in that situation that morting is the best alternative. You have to wait some seconds to respawn but so do the enemies, when they come back to attack you'll be ready with full health to resist and defend your flag.

You don't need ammo or health to defend a flag, just sit on it and they can't capture it. That time you spent respawning could be spent preventing the enemy team from capturing and buying your team time to respawn and get on the flag themselves. So no, I don't see the best alternative to be morting yourself just to respawn because it's possible to hold a flag without firing a single bullet while being on 10 health, with certain set-ups you can also be a meat shield and block shots for your VIP. Let's be real too -- There's always going to be at least one person charging your flag.

hinakagiyama a dit :

Also, you have situations like the one Holis mentioned, where you're too far away from the action and it's a better idea to kill yourself to move to the right place, and at the same time recover your health and ammo. Why look for an enemy to kill you when you can simply /mort?

There's only two places you need to be in a VIP match, either on your VIP or the enemies. It's not that hard to decide between going after the enemy VIP or camping your own; besides that most VIP's end up right next to each other anyways so I don't see how you could stray away from the action.. The maps are pretty small in general and it's not that hard to get around even with conjure all over the place (If you're having trouble maybe you should rework your kit).

hinakagiyama a dit :

I don't know what weapons you might usually use but for the most part I'm a SPAS user, I run out of ammo quickly and, to me, /mort has proven to be a really useful and strategic tool. Whether it's a cheap way for statpadders to get a good kills/deaths ratio or not, is an entirely different matter and doesn't change this fact.

As I've said before there's perks to combat this issue and it's your choice not to use them, not really an excuse to mort. Why add features to the game if users are only going to prove them null in the first place? They're there for a reason.

hinakagiyama a dit :

I don't see this bug as an unintended feature, but more like something that they never considered when they programmed the way the stats work. Perhaps they didn't even remember /mort existed when profiles were added. But /mort is there. I've been using /mort in bootcamp (TFM) since the command was first discovered and I've always seen it as a way to save time and play more efficiently, same thing in FTR.

Shadowinter a dit :

It's a bug because the command is behaving in an unintended way by not adding to your death stat when you've clearly died, whether it be a simple mistake made in the coding or an actual error.

Transformice is a different game entirely and I don't think comparing it to Fortoresse is a good idea. Transformice has a much more harsh punishment for dying (No cheese, lack of points towards shaman turn) but in Bootcamp I don't really mind it because it's fair game there if you're obsessed with times.

hinakagiyama a dit :

Am I supposed to not use a feature in the game just because it's adding stats to my profile (which I don't care about for the most part)?

My whole point here is that /mort is not just for the statpadders out there, it's a valid feature and a useful one (at least for some people).

I expect people not to use an exploit but I guess that's asking too much. To be honest I don't think that changes the inconvenience for others either.

Shadowwinter a dit :

As I've said before there's perks to combat this issue and it's your choice not to use them, not really an excuse to mort. Why add features to the game if users are only going to prove them null in the first place? They're there for a reason.

Do I need an excuse to use mort? I understand you may find it unfair to farm stats with that bug/exploit, but mort itself is not a bug nor an exploit, or at least I don't think it is. It's been there since before stats were added and no one seemed to complain about it.

I understands your points about the strategy involved in mort but I still disagree because it is useful to me. Just like some people consider it fair and good strategy to camp while others call it cheap or even cheating, mort is just another alternative.

Shadowwinter a dit :

As I've said before there's perks to combat this issue and it's your choice not to use them, not really an excuse to mort. Why add features to the game if users are only going to prove them null in the first place? They're there for a reason.

I do use perks and I could say the same thing about mort, it is your choice not to use it. The only thing I don't understand is why insist on not using mort. Why restrain yourself from using this command? It's been there since before stats were added, there was no exploit. Why should people stop using a feature that's been there all this time just because they add profiles with stats easily farmable with said feature? What if these people don't even care about profiles?

Even if they did care about profiles or even if they used mort solely for the purpose of statpadding, the mort feature is still part of the game and has been there this whole time, it's not the players' fault that now it gives us cheap stats.

Are you against /mort itself or just the stats bug? Because I don't think /mort is a bad thing. Although I wouldn't complain if they removed it, since it might make things more interesting and difficult.

I'm not against the command itself just that it effects stats making people want to use it during a gun fight to get away with a free death. I don't care much about stats myself but I can see it being used as an excuse to harass innocent high level players with decent stats (like how bootcamps were farmed); More or less you could say that I just don't want to deal with the drama that comes with it.

There's plenty of strategies on this game but that's just because one doesn't suit all -- I can see mort being useful (as I've said before I'm not against the command) but just the way it is right now is a bit broken in my opinion. I wouldn't have this issue if a death counted and maybe adding 3 extra seconds to your spawn timer to make up for the fact you're getting full health and ammo without someone/something slaying you.

It's all just play-style I guess but I do enjoy running around and killing people more at low health because it kind of makes the game more of a challenge, the game's pretty easy to play though some enemies aren't easy to slay but that's part of the fun for me at least.