Rotherdal a dit :

Spoiler

I beg to differ.
Why do people hold Frisk accountable for things it's obvious they didn't want to do? I get the stuff it's us who control Frisk, but Chara exists in there because the SOUL is not the same, but of similar color and trait. Plus,

Spoilergeno route spoilers i'm warning you

Chara demands the soul so control belongs fully to them. "SINCE WHEN YOU WERE THE ONE IN CONTROL?" - Chara.

I seriously am done with people accusing Frisk of murder in Genocide out of their own volition and making Chara seem like a genuine good soul that helps out Frisk everytime in Pacifist / Neutral Routes. IT SIMPLY DOESN'T HAPPEN.
And the part where "LV is 1 means Chara didn't kill anyone or something like that" is again stupid. They were running from something. Either something that happened to them, or something they did.
I still don't believe the buttercup poisoning was accidental. While one could misread the instructions on a recipe, Chara was fully aware of what they were doing. Something serious as poisoning can't just be laughed off.
Also, Frisk is looked by Chara as some sort of guidance? Are you seriously kidding me? Chara suddenly spins off their morality in Asriel's lines of thought? REALLY BRO?
Must I remember

Spoilerstory spoilers

they picked up their own body that day they died? And when crossing the barrier, the intent was set on HURTING the humans?

What for it's still a mystery, but i still think it was over something Chara did,

Spoiler

and the humans' reaction at seeing Asriel and thinking he killed Chara

suggests to me only public outrage rather than true compassion. The humans were still condoning the monsters at stake for hurting their kind.

So in all seriousness I don't think the theory is really proving anything. Chara was always in control during the Genocide Route, but they opt on setting Frisk as a scapegoat for their own ends. The hesitation in front of Papyrus, the hesitation when fighting Sans...I don't really think that these emotions would truly stem from Chara. Their hatred was higher than Frisk's, and while Frisk might have had an unfortunate reason for choosing to go down Mt. Ebott, it might not be that strong as Chara's was, and this is my theory on the whole thing.

I've never had a theory like this setting my Undertale detective mode more than ever.

angelfromaj a dit :

how smol is chara
how old are they in your head?
i'd say 12

angelfromaj a dit :

how smol is chara
how old are they in your head?
i'd say 12

angelfromaj a dit :

how smol is chara
how old are they in your head?
i'd say 12

Rotherdal a dit :

angelfromaj a dit :VoirMasquer

how smol is chara
how old are they in your head?
i'd say 12

Also, if Chara would be the narrator in pacifist, they're simply making statements Frisk may or may not regard as guidance, if we are to think on a "positive possession" stuff.
For all we know, Frisk could rely on the shared memories given by the SOUL they have as guidance. It's a possibility, given the similariies of SOULS.

Spoiler

chara provides some very helpful tips for true pacifist though, such as telling Frisk what else they may be able to SAVE (their friends) during the Asriel fight. Chara also provides help for how to befriend other monsters when you check them.
imo, the OP pretty much proved chara was the narrator rather than Frisk or even Frisk gaining knowledge from the memories of Chara's soul.
we can tell this by what perspective the narrator uses.
lemme post some examples the OP gave

Spoiler

"My bed" - this was the bed Chara slept in and also died in, even if Frisk was the narrator and able to see Chara's memories, they would most likely refer to the bed as "Chara's bed" in the third person rather than "my bed" in the first person.

Rotherdal a dit :

Or perhaps, in some instances, Chara takes control and those prompts come from them? I mean, Frisk can obviously have some backseat at times...

Doitsudoitsu a dit :

Rotherdal a dit :VoirMasquer

Or perhaps, in some instances, Chara takes control and those prompts come from them? I mean, Frisk can obviously have some backseat at times...

doesn't change the fact chara is giving frisk help. when the player embarks on a pacifist run, chara tends to give tips on how to befriend monsters. when the player embarks on a genocide run, chara gives tips on how to defeat monsters. more evidence for chara being the narrator is that they refer to frisk as "you". "you say this, you do that, etc." if Frisk was the narrator, it would be "I do this, I do that, etc."

Rotherdal a dit :

Doitsudoitsu a dit :VoirMasquer

Rotherdal a dit :VoirMasquer

Or perhaps, in some instances, Chara takes control and those prompts come from them? I mean, Frisk can obviously have some backseat at times...

doesn't change the fact chara is giving frisk help. when the player embarks on a pacifist run, chara tends to give tips on how to befriend monsters. when the player embarks on a genocide run, chara gives tips on how to defeat monsters. more evidence for chara being the narrator is that they refer to frisk as "you". "you say this, you do that, etc." if Frisk was the narrator, it would be "I do this, I do that, etc."

Ok, for the sake of argument, we can safely say Chara's existence is there.
This doesn't change the fact Chara's moral compass is wonky, as if it's impossible to determine whether they're good or not.

My theory on Chara being evil stems from two simple facts.
1.Should Chara be on Asriel's side of the philosophy of not killing anyone, Chara would actively involve into discouraging Frisk from turning evil.
2. Given the fact Chara's hatred for humanity extended in some ways to the monsters...(yes it did, because otherwise we'd see Chara adapting to the monster family) we do not see anything suggesting that Chara doesn't particularly enjoy taking control of Frisk and killing all the way.

Frisk is nothing but a mere vessel to Chara's control, and should Frisk resist the curiosity of killing (if we imbue to Frisk this sort of pathway), Chara can only sit back and groan at the thought they're not in control. But, when Frisk gives in to some curiosity of killing - be it either because of negative emotions we imbue the fallen child with or because we imagine something horrid must've happened with them so we put them in a situation where they kill everyone - then Chara's control grows stronger over time, not like when it is in Pacifist / Neutral runs.

We can see the splitting control thing in action.

Rotherdal a dit :

Daapplehead a dit :VoirMasquer

"*Smells like over-analyzing and projection."

Not projecting anything. I'm just a fan of the theory that keeps Frisk's possession as a potential in Genocide Route, nothing else.

alyxxxzd a dit :

sorry to kinda go off-topic here ?? but does anybody have tips for the undyne genocide route battle
i keep dying over and over and ughhhh i just wanna finish it

alyxxxzd a dit :

sorry to kinda go off-topic here ?? but does anybody have tips for the undyne genocide route battle
i keep dying over and over and ughhhh i just wanna finish it

Doitsudoitsu a dit :

alyxxxzd a dit :VoirMasquer

sorry to kinda go off-topic here ?? but does anybody have tips for the undyne genocide route battle
i keep dying over and over and ughhhh i just wanna finish it

yup!

Spoiler

- get the ballet shoes & tutu (tho if you haven't you can't go back to get them because the bird's gone, so buy a torn notebook instead or reset); ballet shoes are behind the waterfall, tutu is in a bush to the left in the area which leads to onionsan
- when they're fading or just firing up (mainly-transparent) her spears won't deal any damage. use this to your advantage when she attacks you from below with the 3 spears in the small box or when she's rapidly firing them (so go towards them bc they won't hurt you)
- don't give up, once you've memorized her arrow attacks, the battle becomes easier
- circular motions are good for when her spears are firing at you from all directions
- your soul (the heart) moves faster diagonally than it does horizontally/vertically so this is helpful when her spears are circling you - find a gap between the spears and try to move diagonally towards it

good luck!

angelvintage a dit :

alyxxxzd a dit :VoirMasquer

sorry to kinda go off-topic here ?? but does anybody have tips for the undyne genocide route battle
i keep dying over and over and ughhhh i just wanna finish it

Well, when you act, don't pick "challenge" or else the bullets get faster. And make sure you have hp-restoring items.

mukasasha a dit :

all of these theories confuse me soo idk anymore about sticking with dem but im going 2 just be in the background and watch

i still like chara tho
but i dont like it when peeps view them as some "edgy kid who thirsts 4 murder" example of this is the art of them
i just want a decent icon of them come on people