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Espagnol  Deusarainha  « Citoyen » 1515087000000
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| I don’t agree , cause if the idea is to be fair, its easilly to just block levels 80+ to play vanilla, cause in a duel map, a lvl 101 like u say, just kills the midrange level 1-20 with skills, or without them... |
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Jeliez a dit : There are those "people" that die when they don't first. Then, we end up only getting half the saves. With the revive option and the "tp" skill we could get saves easier and the divine mode was possible. But now it really is impossible. Noob players are almost always dying (with tp we could help them) and I can only get 4 saves por example. Almost no one is using divine now, only 10% of vanilla players. And you're wrong on "Using divine in Vanilla and having the use of skills gives zero challenge to a sham". Even with skills, there are certain maps that require some knowledge and experience on how to use divine correctly. It's clear that with all that said, divine mode is completely unfair without skills. And about "dual shaman", if you're that sorry for the "noob" shamans, then just propose to remove the skills on those maps. It's not because of less of 10% of vanilla maps that we shouldn't have to have skills on vanilla. Edit: Some grammar errors Dernière modification le 1515090240000 |
| Jeliez « Citoyen » 1515090300000
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| @Puredragons No need to sound salty. New players just get put into vanilla because the maps are admin made and easier to navigate. It wasn't feeling sorry for them, it was stating a fact. Those with high levels tend to take advantage of lower leveled players with the use of skills. Like when someone can freeze and all that one mouse has is a cannon .. not too fair. Those that don't first and die are stat padders. That happens in all rooms that firsts are counted in and usually if you rev them, they'll die before you can pop them into the hole using mort. Lack of skills forces a sham to build carefully, not quickly as most want to do. Considering it's the same rotation of maps over and over with zero change... I mean.. yknow? It's hard to feel completely bad that the use of skills is gone temporarily. I guess maybe I could see all the hate/anger if skills were ALWAYS there since conception of the game... but they weren't and it's doable without. That's all. :/ Dernière modification le 1515090480000 |
Dariosfox  « Citoyen » 1515090360000
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| Feliz natal que ja passou :D |
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| @Jeliez Sorry if I sounded salty. Now, Jeliez a dit : You're right. In a duel, the Noob shaman with lower experience will surely die to a high-leveled shaman due to certain skills. That's why it would be good to or remove the skills on those maps or make it so that both shaman to fight are evenly leveled, in terms of "selecting" them. Then we could have a fair fight. Jeliez a dit : With tp, we can teleport them to the hole. And if we rev them when we're close to the hole, they won't have the chance to do /mort. That's why the skills are good. Because with them, we can make sure that we get a lot of saves, and so it is fair. Because otherwise we only get less of 4 saves for example on certain maps with divine. But sure, there are cases where I can get more saves, depending if the map requires a lot of construction or not. Jeliez a dit : Divine mode was implemented in 2014. Skills were in 2013. And your statement about it being "doable" is not that true at all for all reasons that I have stated already. Why I'd use a mode that I only get 4 saves per map? And isn't it unfair that we can't use divine now on vanilla maps because of the lack of skills? It's not that it is impossible, but it is unnecessary to remove them and to make divine mode that difficult, to the point of only getting 1 shaman coin per map. So, about divine mode, it's not that doable without skills. That's why I agree that, if we're to remove skills, we're to remove the divine mode as well. But fortunately the skills were only temporarily removed and only on vanilla, and they're gonna return at the end of the event. Sorry if I sounded harsh, I'm only statting my arguments on why the skills are important now (Even to noob players, since with "tp" we can help them to get to the cheese/hole, etc) |
Mooka_gamer  « Censeur » 1515093960000
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| Thank you |
| Jeliez « Citoyen » 1515094560000
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| @Puredragons It's cool. No worries. Puredragons a dit : -- On that, I agree, but you're going to have people that feel entitled to being able to use the skillset that they earned through playing. It's another can of worms... Puredragons a dit : You can, if they aren't paying attention. Padders take padding just as seriously as you do your shamming. Some will actually leave the room or keep tabs on which player does what. In a room full of padders (which typically have free for alls in Vanilla because of easy firsts) its not a surprise to have lesser saves. Even with tp and rev. Besides, you can only save what? 10 mice at max? Five for rev and five tele? This is assuming time isn't almost gone from dead mice to begin with, they have cheese, and that you don't have the opportunist skill enabled. Puredragons a dit : Yes, but v nails have always existed and so has the ability to play with them. There was a trend before divine existed. People liked to make weird thing like slingshots or twirly things to raise the mice, or lifts. Skills were activated in 2013, before Divine - meaning that they weren't solely meant for that mode. Everyone's saves are being affected by the the inability to rev and tele, but that doesn't mean that you can't still use divine to build a way. It's still doable was what I meant, just more challenging. I like the change, but I'm weird. <3 Dernière modification le 1515095340000 |
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Jeliez a dit : Yup, exactly. Jeliez a dit : 10 saves are a few? Normal vanilla rooms can have around 20 mices, so it's safe to say that around 85% we could at least have for saves, with a good construction and usage of skills. So yeah, with skills we get 100% more saves on divine, given that I mentioned the number "4" saves as the average, and 4+10 (tp + rev) would be 14 and with skills I'd get more than that, since noobs would enter the hole too easier. With that you can see that skills are really essential for divine, since instead of 1 shaman coin I can get more than 3. There were a lot of times I got 5. And about the time being gone, I could finish the map within 1min with skills, lol. Jeliez a dit : Yeah, but what I meant was: Divine mode was implemented taking in account the existence of skills. It's more challenging, but limited, because it's impossible to save at least 80% of Noobs, and 0% of stats padders will enter. That's why we only get around 4 or more on divine without skills. It's possible/doable to get saves, but really unfair wihout shaman skills, to the point of there being really no desire/willing to use it anymore. |
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Jeliez a dit : The thing is only the MINORITY of people complained about skills and wanted them removed. Thats why the MAJORITY is mad at this update. I understand that removing the skills can give more 'challenge' to players in vanilla but as I said, it shouldn't be FORCED onto everyone. It should be an OPTION in shaman feather or settings. And about tutorials exactly because they can't learn while everything is happening around them, the tutorial should be all in one not in pieces while you're playing vanilla. When you make an account you spawn in a private tutorial room where nobody else can enter except you. You go to the cheese and bring it back to the hole and thats it, the rest of the tutorials are in vanilla. Which as I said isn't really 'good'. There should be 1 full tutorial to teach them basic things. If some people are lower levels and other shamans kill them and take their saves its not 'unfair'. Because new people don't know the point of saves yet. And if they are a low level its because they just started playing and didn't level up yet. But that's completely fair. Removing skills for players who WORKED for their skills ISN'T fair. It SHOULD be an OPTION. And I don't understand how its 'not' fair if low level shamans die to high level shamans. It is fair because high level shamans worked for their level and for their skills. Just removing their skills because of a low level shaman (someone who didn't work for anything) ISN'T fair to me. Dernière modification le 1515118980000 |
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Barberserk a dit : |
Mouphmeonw  « Citoyen » 1515123480000
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| I hate christmas event. |
| Jeliez « Citoyen » 1515127440000
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| @Puredragons I sat in a vanilla room and played around with the divine mode (which I'm not good at period) and I gotta admit, the water maps, twirly plank, and that one with the bridge that goes up and down are.. tricky, but I like it. On that note though, all this practice with it made me more confident so I might actually use it. I legit only have 4 divine saves and that was well before the event so.. c; But yeah, different opinions is what this leads to. <3 @Amizko So angry. Tell me, why do statpadders go into a room full of noobs? To get easy firsts right? Tell me, why do higher level shams at 130 go into vanilla rooms and kill level 18 players with freeze? Cause they want easy* saves. Now skills are disabled temporarily. Revenge of the Noobs is sweet. Muahahahahahahaha -coughcough- Struggle is real bro and I'd hate to be an admin on this game tbh. Dernière modification le 1515127980000 |
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Jeliez a dit : You clearly mentioned that you're not that good at divine yet. That explains why, even with skills, you couldn't get that many saves. But it really isn't a question of opinion, but facts. The removal of the skills were an unfair decision and the majority didn't like it. So can be proved by this topic's comments, or the pool that a president made, which resulted in the majority saying that they wanted the skills back. Jeliez a dit : You clearly ignored most of the things he said, which are true. And the fact that you didn't answer him directly on those points (about being unfair and should be an "Option" and not enforced to us) easily means that you don't know how to atack those arguments. Because the true is simple: the admins must return the shaman skills, and they surely will. "Tell me, why do higher level shams at 130 go into vanilla rooms and kill level 18 players with freeze? Cause they want easy* saves." You suppose that the high leveled shaman should suicide and give saves to the level 18 player? It's a fight, and it's not only because he's highly leveled that he mustn't make use of something he made the effort to have (great experience) And so, you suppose they mustn't play vanilla rooms? It's not prohibited for them to play vanilla only because they have what you call the "advantage". And if they have, it's because they fought to have it. They earn it. They deserve it. And if the player doesn't like normal rooms, he isn't compelled to don't play vanilla only because he's got the advantage. Seriously. I haven't seen no one complaining about it. And so, in conclusion, you can't say that it's because they want easy saves, they're just playing their game normally. I guess you're out of things to say to support your theory that the removal of the skills were that good of a change, xd. Dernière modification le 1515161280000 |
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| Bring the skills back already please... |
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| I hope the event ends today and the skills come back today, I hope. |
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| Next time remove the skills in normal rooms, not in vanilla. THANKS |
Kanskje  « Sénateur » 1515170640000
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Arnaauu a dit : vanilla is easier than normal, so it makes more sense to get the skills out of the easier |
| Jeliez « Citoyen » 1515171060000
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| @Puredragons Oh. I thought we reached an understanding…and now that I’m on my laptop I can better elaborate. Firstly.. I adore vanilla rooms. It’s my favorite mode next to racing. I currently have only 4 saves on Divine mode (which I’ve had for a quite while from playing in a small room with friends ages ago) because I played strictly using a trackpad on my laptop. Now - while it’s great and fun to build … moving quickly to your inventory on a trackpad isn’t easy, but yeah - I’m not the best with Divine because I don’t use it regularly - which is why I was baffled by people so pissed about the loss of skills to begin with (especially since higher levels use it more often, most citing that they have a mouse as opposed to a trackpad.) That being said - all I was stating was that “building” without skills was doable. I said that multiple time through my post. Lack of skills doesn’t hinder the building process, because even though I don’t use Divine mode regularly, I was still able to BUILD a way from the cheese to the hole. It was was harder, but possible. On hardmode, which is what I use (and no, I don’t use my totem because it’s a damn ferris wheel) I’ get anywhere between 3 to 4 sham coins. Now hardmode - it’s glitchy af during events. The snow, certain maps, and don’t get me started on throwables (which I love but hate from time to time) can be a pain in the ass and make it worse. Snowballs kill a lot of mice … divine mode wasn’t the only MODE AFFECTED by loss of the skilltree. I can’t rev my five mice. I can’t teleport my three mice. I can’t use my cleats to stand on awkwardly placed planks easier anymore …but it is what it is. The lack of the skilltree forced me to actually build carefully instead of rely on springs or teles. I’m not hating on the loss of skills because I had the opportunist skill and like Amizko stated prior in what they said “noobs don’t understand the concept of skills” so if I give cheese to the noob scrambling their way to the hole, and I start to rev and they make it in, I miss out on those saves anyway. I’m not that heartbroken it was only five mice … in rooms that are usually full of 26/27 or more. No big deal … TO ME ANYWAY. I liked it. The only skills that people are complaining the most about losing is REV, TP, AND CHIEFS FOOD. < The big three that affected every mode. (Including mine.) --- To respond to the last half of what was said when you were responding for me in regard to Amizko, I already answered/responded to pretty much the majority of what they had spoke of with the exception of the tutorial in posts before annnd while having a conversation with you. Puredragons a dit : Whoa …did you forget what you posted to me earlier? Puredragons a dit : Fair fight/ And my response to you? Jeliez a dit : And your response? Puredragons a dit : Don’t try to ride the fence, it’s not fun. Neither is backtracking on your responses to others so you can sound relevant in a completely different conversation. It wasn’t “in theory” because everyone that used skills were affected by the change, no matter what mode they currently used and as I stated and will state for the last time - all I was saying, was building was still doable on divine - which several people wanted removed entirely if the skills were gone - but it wouldn’t stop people from building with V nails … because they’re used to using them. It seemed pointless to remove that mode if people could still build with it. Others are supposed to miss out because people are complaining? It’s not different than me saying no skills are okay, but I forget, I guess only those on divine are entitled to have opinions on skills that were implemented before divine, that people still GOT USED TO USING. See? --- @Amizko There’s written tutorials on the forum already to explain each mode (easy, hard, divine), nail functions, sham abilities, plus Yt tutorials from other players. As a visual learner, I like one that pops up in the beginning with your first make a name and it shows you the basics. The rest is sort of learn as you play. That sense of accomplishment. Vanilla is easy to navigate - so that’s the perfect place for noobs to practice around other mice … so they can learn, so they can ask questions from other players, socialize, make friends etc, which is the point of an interactive online game with a public chat. They can sit in and watch a video on wjing, cjing, or building …even do it on their own, but unless they’re in a room on a map with other mice, they’re not going to get a full understanding because mice weight with cheese vs not, is different. Training rooms, (I’m not talking about the the very first thing you see when you sign up and you’re alone), can be changed to specific rooms so they can play around with friends there and learn. Even if they did change it, noobs could still skip if they wanted. Just like you can with the ./nosouris thing. ------------ I never said that people shouldn’t play in vanilla if they’re higher level. I’m just saying some aspects may seem unfair which could be why it was removed for the event. Obviously everyone’s input matters, even the minority of the game. ---- Dernière modification le 1515172080000 |
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Kaldt a dit : . |