Raise the requirements for divine mode

The current requirements for divine mode are 5000 easy mode saves and 2000 hard mode saves. This means that the average user will be in easy mode for 1000 saves, and hard mode for 4000. These are extremely small numbers, and as such players advance through shaman content rather quickly with active play. This results in the lower modes being neglected and forgotten very early on in a mouse's life.

The problem is that hard mode introduces mice to many important aspects of shaman, such as the interaction between objects and different types of force, or counterbalancing builds. These things are only touched upon for a mere 4000 saves and then mice are thrown into v only mode. This is especially bad since the game has no tutorial for shaman, and the time spent in hard mode is critical to an understanding of it.

Another thing is that I feel as though unlocking a shaman mode should feel like a great achievement, rather than a mild inconvenience, and that the lower modes should be frequented by a higher percentage of players. Upon opening the shaman interface there is a big totem button that almost everyone has forgotten exists, save for maybe some cheap survivor shamans. Was divine mode not intended as end game content? Usually you have to work a lot for that kind of stuff.

I believe that the requirement for divine mode would be much better at 10,000 hard mode saves. Many of you may look at this and think it's too high but it's really not. If you frequent rooms and play for a couple hours a day, you could have it in a little over a month. This is with just a little bit of playing, around 2-3 hours. With this requirement boost, you could expect a better spread of the shaman modes being used by players, and an overall skill increase.

For the players who already have divine mode but do not have 10,000 hard saves, they should not be stripped of their mode. Rather, only shamans who do not have divine mode after the requirement is theoretically raised would have to begin working toward 10,000 hard saves.

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As someone with 13359 / 2541 / 8178 saves (hi, I'm playing divinity with you right now. 3B average on diff 3-5), I think that requirement is much too high. I'd just be able to get divine mode right now. Honestly, I think the biggest problem is that there are no (well known) ways to learn how to do divinity, not that the requirements for it are too low. Once I found divinity, I got way better just by watching people in just one month than I did in all the time prior to finding out about divinity. I think official tutorials on divine techniques like ways to stabilize builds, mechanics of pinning items, etc etc would be much more helpful than just barring more people out of it. Plus, hard mode mechanics still don't let you learn about how v nails and v nail builds work. That's up to the player to initiate learning and nothing's stopping them from doing it now. I agree that it's quite frustrating having a bunch of people who don't know how to build in your room, but barring the majority of players from divinity isn't the way to go.

While hard mode mechanics for the most part don't explicitly translate to divine mode, playing in hard mode exposes the player to physics, something easy mode lacks when played correctly. It's almost like an easy mode for divine mode if that makes any at all sense. I also don't think that a player with only 5000 saves should have all shaman content unlocked. I made this thread late last night so I would would not forget to, i'll spruce up the op with my additional points now.

No Support

Sorry, but I have a few reasons

- Many people aren't able to play multiple hours per day. I'm pretty active and I've just reached 4k saves in 5 months. 10k seems to be pushing the limits a bit. Besides, once you unlock it, you aren't forced to play it. You have the option to just ignore it and continue on easy or hard mode. If it was suddenly raised from 5k to 10k, many people who, are like, less than 50 saves away would probably get a little annoyed if their goal was to unlock divine, then suddenly, they're restarting a goal of 5k. Also, when people unlock Divine, I'm pretty sure they would've seen some Divine Mode shamans build several times before. It's not hard to watch and learn.

winter4438 a dit :
No Support
Sorry, but I have a few reasons

- Many people aren't able to play multiple hours per day. I'm pretty active and I've just reached 4k saves in 5 months. 10k seems to be pushing the limits a bit. Besides, once you unlock it, you aren't forced to play it. You have the option to just ignore it and continue on easy or hard mode. If it was suddenly raised from 5k to 10k, many people who, are like, less than 50 saves away would probably get a little annoyed if their goal was to unlock divine, then suddenly, they're restarting a goal of 5k. Also, when people unlock Divine, I'm pretty sure they would've seen some Divine Mode shamans build several times before. It's not hard to watch and learn.

^ This

Plus, people do have lives, and like Winter said, most people aren't able to play Multiple Hours a day.

/No Support

winter4438 a dit :
No Support
Sorry, but I have a few reasons

- Many people aren't able to play multiple hours per day. I'm pretty active and I've just reached 4k saves in 5 months. 10k seems to be pushing the limits a bit. Besides, once you unlock it, you aren't forced to play it. You have the option to just ignore it and continue on easy or hard mode. If it was suddenly raised from 5k to 10k, many people who, are like, less than 50 saves away would probably get a little annoyed if their goal was to unlock divine, then suddenly, they're restarting a goal of 5k. Also, when people unlock Divine, I'm pretty sure they would've seen some Divine Mode shamans build several times before. It's not hard to watch and learn.

It's pretty hard to watch and learn when the amount of shamans who are capable of building without super planks and duct tape is close to none.

Players need more of their OWN experience, so they can develop their OWN feel for the game's mechanics. If you watch and learn something, that does not guarantee you understand how it works. Watching is good, it should not be all you're capable of. This assumes you're watching again, a good shaman. Of which there are very little in transformice's current state.

And if you don't play a lot, then you don't DESERVE to unlock the FINAL mode

Tomdizzy a dit :
winter4438 a dit :
No Support
Sorry, but I have a few reasons

- Many people aren't able to play multiple hours per day. I'm pretty active and I've just reached 4k saves in 5 months. 10k seems to be pushing the limits a bit. Besides, once you unlock it, you aren't forced to play it. You have the option to just ignore it and continue on easy or hard mode. If it was suddenly raised from 5k to 10k, many people who, are like, less than 50 saves away would probably get a little annoyed if their goal was to unlock divine, then suddenly, they're restarting a goal of 5k. Also, when people unlock Divine, I'm pretty sure they would've seen some Divine Mode shamans build several times before. It's not hard to watch and learn.

It's pretty hard to watch and learn when the amount of shamans who are capable of building without super planks and duct tape is close to none.

Players need more of their OWN experience, so they can develop their OWN feel for the game's mechanics. If you watch and learn something, that does not guarantee you understand how it works. Watching is good, it should not be all you're capable of. This assumes you're watching again, a good shaman. Of which there are very little in transformice's current state.

And if you don't play a lot, then you don't DESERVE to unlock the FINAL mode

It's not always the player's fault if they're so busy, they don't have time to give up hours a day on a mouse game. And I understand that players need their own experience. Theres always the option to practice in a private room by yourself. Some people don't, true, but it's not like they can't learn by their shaman turns and advice from others. And I mean over time, not just one round and boom. Of course it takes practice.

Tomdizzy a dit :
my god what do you MEAN you can't learn from your own shaman turns??

Winter4438 a dit :
It's not like they can learn by their shaman turns

Sorry, that was a typo, I meant *can't. Lol

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winter4438 a dit :

It's not always the player's fault if they're so busy, they don't have time to give up hours a day on a mouse game. And I understand that players need their own experience. Theres always the option to practice in a private room by yourself. Some people don't, true, but it's not like they can learn by their shaman turns and advice from others.

tomdizzy a dit :

And if you don't play a lot, then you don't DESERVE to unlock the FINAL mode

i'm going to assume you meant ' can't ' instead of can. Yes they can learn by their own shaman turns, in hard mode with a lower failure rate

e: oh it was a typo lmao, happens to all of us

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39951 / 10556 / 23725

As a regular divine mode player in normal rooms, I can admit I have had times where I had to wait an entire game round waiting for a shaman new to divine, completely screw up the build and/ or didn't know how to build. It's pretty frustrating too when you're stuck on a dual map with one of these shamans as well and they're totally messing up your build.

Anyways, most divine players didn't know how to shaman with it at all when they first started. Personally I had to watch friends or random people build with divine mode before I could even begin to understand the mechanics of it.

I agree with how the stats for obtaining divine mode is really low, I mean 5000 easy saves and 2000 hard mode saves? Players are gaining the last shaman mode at only level 50! However, I do not like the numbers you listed as to what it should be. 10,000 seems way too much. I believe that you should have 10,000 easy saves, and 5,000 hardmode saves.

I'll have to go /half support

e/ Perhaps Transformice could add a minimum level for obtaining divine mode? Sounds kind of harsh but it may be the proper alternative in this situation.

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#10

natrats a dit :
snip

The thing is, you don't really learn much about physics or anything in easy mode. B nails are gamebreaking and don't allow you to experiment with gravity etc

#12

No. 10,000 hard mode saves is way too much. Transformice isn't a game that you go hard core on it. Transformice is a casual game. Because people do not play a lot doesn't mean they don't deserve it, that's horrible reasoning. If you feel like you can't handle divine mode, you can always switch to hard mode or easy mode to get used to it.

#13

sniffling a dit :
No. 10,000 hard mode saves is way too much. Transformice isn't a game that you go hard core on it. Transformice is a casual game. Because people do not play a lot doesn't mean they don't deserve it, that's horrible reasoning. If you feel like you can't handle divine mode, you can always switch to hard mode or easy mode to get used to it.

casual players cannot handle divine mode

#14

Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
No. 10,000 hard mode saves is way too much. Transformice isn't a game that you go hard core on it. Transformice is a casual game. Because people do not play a lot doesn't mean they don't deserve it, that's horrible reasoning. If you feel like you can't handle divine mode, you can always switch to hard mode or easy mode to get used to it.

casual players cannot handle divine mode

Elaborate.

I'm mostly a casual player and can handle divine mode.

#15

sniffling a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
No. 10,000 hard mode saves is way too much. Transformice isn't a game that you go hard core on it. Transformice is a casual game. Because people do not play a lot doesn't mean they don't deserve it, that's horrible reasoning. If you feel like you can't handle divine mode, you can always switch to hard mode or easy mode to get used to it.

casual players cannot handle divine mode

Elaborate.

I'm mostly a casual player and can handle divine mode.

Well then you're a rare exception, because the average low-statted divine moder is a train wreck. All they do is spam solid balloons

#16

Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
No. 10,000 hard mode saves is way too much. Transformice isn't a game that you go hard core on it. Transformice is a casual game. Because people do not play a lot doesn't mean they don't deserve it, that's horrible reasoning. If you feel like you can't handle divine mode, you can always switch to hard mode or easy mode to get used to it.

casual players cannot handle divine mode

Elaborate.

I'm mostly a casual player and can handle divine mode.

Well then you're a rare exception, because the average low-statted divine moder is a train wreck. All they do is spam solid balloons

No?
Most divine mode shamans I have seen have been actually good. Even so, if people are actually as bad as you say, there's always an option to change modes. If people choose not to, then let them. If it really affects you that much that you suggest an idea to raise the requirements for a game mechanic in an indie game to near impossible for casuals, then help them learn.

#17

sniffling a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
No. 10,000 hard mode saves is way too much. Transformice isn't a game that you go hard core on it. Transformice is a casual game. Because people do not play a lot doesn't mean they don't deserve it, that's horrible reasoning. If you feel like you can't handle divine mode, you can always switch to hard mode or easy mode to get used to it.

casual players cannot handle divine mode

Elaborate.

I'm mostly a casual player and can handle divine mode.

Well then you're a rare exception, because the average low-statted divine moder is a train wreck. All they do is spam solid balloons

No?
Most divine mode shamans I have seen have been actually good. Even so, if people are actually as bad as you say, there's always an option to change modes. If people choose not to, then let them. If it really affects you that much that you suggest an idea to raise the requirements for a game mechanic in an indie game to near impossible for casuals, then help them learn.

10,000 hard mode is not even a lot. It's a little over a month of casual level play. And as i'm pretty sure i've stated somewhere, if there are this many inexperienced divine moders (i don't know where you play, but the only time i ever see good divine shamans is in the divinity module, which i actually happen to help manage) then it's safe to assume they aren't going to change modes. It's not so much how it affects me, I simply wish for the game to improve. It hurts to see how the shaman aspect of the game has become so lost from 2010 to where we are today. I have seen tfm slowly evolve through the years and as the skill roof of racing and bootcamp type things have raised significantly, the opposite is true for shaman. There are many reasons, the low requirement for this mode is one of them.

#18

Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
sniffling a dit :
No. 10,000 hard mode saves is way too much. Transformice isn't a game that you go hard core on it. Transformice is a casual game. Because people do not play a lot doesn't mean they don't deserve it, that's horrible reasoning. If you feel like you can't handle divine mode, you can always switch to hard mode or easy mode to get used to it.

casual players cannot handle divine mode

Elaborate.

I'm mostly a casual player and can handle divine mode.

Well then you're a rare exception, because the average low-statted divine moder is a train wreck. All they do is spam solid balloons

No?
Most divine mode shamans I have seen have been actually good. Even so, if people are actually as bad as you say, there's always an option to change modes. If people choose not to, then let them. If it really affects you that much that you suggest an idea to raise the requirements for a game mechanic in an indie game to near impossible for casuals, then help them learn.

10,000 hard mode is not even a lot. It's a little over a month of casual level play. And as i'm pretty sure i've stated somewhere, if there are this many inexperienced divine moders (i don't know where you play, but the only time i ever see good divine shamans is in the divinity module, which i actually happen to help manage) then it's safe to assume they aren't going to change modes. It's not so much how it affects me, I simply wish for the game to improve. It hurts to see how the shaman aspect of the game has become so lost from 2010 to where we are today. I have seen tfm slowly evolve through the years and as the skill roof of racing and bootcamp type things have raised significantly, the opposite is true for shaman. There are many reasons, the low requirement for this mode is one of them.

10,000 hard mode is a lot. I don't know how and what you're factoring in to get 2-3 hours everyday, but it's definitely incorrect. If you think raising the requirements to something like 10,000 is going to help solve the problem of "the shaman aspect being lost" it's not. If you actually want to solve the problem, you offer revamps and reasonable raised requirements.

#19

natrats a dit :
10,000 seems way too much. I believe that you should have 10,000 easy saves, and 5,000 hardmode saves.

I agreed with this until I saw it only takes 1k saves to unlock hardmode. Also there really is no counter for "easy saves". The first counter is your saves total, so your easy saves would be the first number minus the second and third. For there to be that much of a gap between the second and third mode is a bit ridiculous. I could see perhaps 5k hardmode saves and 6k total saves. It's hard to say how much is too much though, considering I bet all of us had access to divine right when it came out.

You also have to consider that there are people in all modes that don't know how to sham. There are plenty of newbies who don't even know how to make a b nail. Getting to hardmode and divine for the first time is like becoming a newbie again. Though I do think that the lv 100+s not being able to sham in divine mode is pretty sad. That's not going to be helped by the requirement raised. More visibility with the divinity module and/or tutorials are what helps with that, and that's on the player to learn.

#20

sniffling a dit :

If you think raising the requirements to something like 10,000 is going to help solve the problem of "the shaman aspect being lost" it's not. If you actually want to solve the problem, you offer revamps and reasonable raised requirements.

Millarz a dit :

That's not going to be helped by the requirement raised.
.

When was the last time you saw a shaman make a base like this

for me, almost never.

in divine mode everyone seems to think this is an acceptable foundation for building

There are FUNDAMENTAL building skills that are not being learned from hard mode before transitioning to divine mode.

Also as a side note, I do offer revamps. They get buried under shaman tree suggestions and people complaining about the election.

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