Crashwolf a dit :

you arent required to use 10 arrow anchors in a build

So why not give hard mode 10 b nails? I don't have to use them after all.

You guys are missing the point. It's not about us, it's about what those saves say what you have done. This mode is meant for the best shamans in the game, not anyone who knows how to arrow anchor.

Musicaholic a dit :

I don't get why everyone gets so angry when others don't build the way they want them to.
Sorry, I'm not sure I understood.. Do you mean harrassed because they can't build in Divine? Well to be honest, a lot of people find Divine mode to be hard as it is right now and I haven't seen many people being harrassed because they failed. People seem to understand its difficulty and let it slide. (Or at least that's as far as I've seen).

It's really just bad explaination on my part; no worries, and yeah. Most of the time when I see people fail in rooms everyone starts yelling at them but that's quite common in almost any room. I'd love to play in the rooms where people are actually friendly though so then I wouldn't have to worry too much about failure :p

Fxie a dit :

no one's forcing you to accept the most difficult challenge in the game either

Balance mode made official when????????

Fxie a dit :

no one's forcing you to accept the most difficult challenge in the game either

Yes, but I have the choice to use it or not to use it. Just like you have the choice to use the anchors or not to use them. If they were removed we wouldn't have that choice.

Shadowwinter a dit :

It's really just bad explaination on my part; no worries, and yeah. Most of the time when I see people fail in rooms everyone starts yelling at them but that's quite common in almost any room. I'd love to play in the rooms where people are actually friendly though so then I wouldn't have to worry too much about failure :p

Well I can't argue with that, people do tend to be very rude about these kinds of things. But then again, this is a problem with the community and not the mode itself. I see where you're coming from, though. I like to practice new modes alone before I play in public rooms, but I guess we can't force everyone to do that.

I'm pretty upset they removed my choice to use a totem in divine mode too

give me my totem back

(literally put something there to fix hotkeys)

Musicaholic a dit :

Well I can't argue with that, people do tend to be very rude about these kinds of things. But then again, this is a problem with the community and not the mode itself. I see where you're coming from, though. I like to practice new modes alone before I play in public rooms, but I guess we can't force everyone to do that.

Indeed, and sadly we can't force them but again skills will grow over time and divine mode will just be the new hardmode.

By the end of the day, the whole whether you choose to or not argument isn't really going to get anything done though because it goes both ways and just contradicts itself. You don't have to use arrow anchors and you don't have to use the mode, it's just that.

To be honest, I'd much rather them fix the double sham saves not counting and maybe making hardmode saves count in divine mode as it essentially takes on the same challenge (to build without specific bolts).

Shadowwinter a dit :

Indeed, and sadly we can't force them but again skills will grow over time and divine mode will just be the new hardmode.

I disagree, unless we are granted a new skill/ability we have no form of quickly supporting dynamics and v bases are rather elaborate



This is not a v build.

I agree with Tomdizzy. There's simply not enough time to come up with an effective solution for many of our current maps, and the difference in hotkeys just makes it harder to adjust.

Shadowwinter a dit :

Indeed, and sadly we can't force them but again skills will grow over time and divine mode will just be the new hardmode.

By the end of the day, the whole whether you choose to or not argument isn't really going to get anything done though because it goes both ways and just contradicts itself. You don't have to use arrow anchors and you don't have to use the mode, it's just that.

To be honest, I'd much rather them fix the double sham saves not counting and maybe making hardmode saves count in divine mode as it essentially takes on the same challenge (to build without specific bolts).

We don't have to choose to play in the mode, that's true. But personally I like the idea of V only builds. V anchors just help to make it a bit more stable. My builds sometimes just glitch and jump around without the anchors for no reason. I don't overlap any nails or anything. It just glitches like that. So I don't know.
Simply the presence of the anchors in our shaman bars shouldn't be such a bother to everyone. It just provides two different styles of divine mode building. And how others choose to use it really shouldn't get everyone so angry.
But you know what, I'm starting to literally get sick of these arguments. You people do what you want. I don't even care if they nerf everything anymore.

I honestly just want to get on with the mode and just play, but feedback really isn't all that bad even if people have different opinions on what and what shouldn't be chanaged. Arrow anchors are nice and more convient and I want them to stick around so builds stay possible for the regular user, but may just not as many so the people that are complaining would probably be a bit more content (if possible). I still think 5 is enough but 10 really is a lot.

My builds do that too, sometimes. I usually try to figure out what I do wrong but sometimes it's difficult with how random Transformice is. I'm honestly enjoying myself with this mode though and have really found interest in the game again.

Shadowwinter a dit :

I honestly just want to get on with the mode and just play, but feedback really isn't all that bad even if people have different opinions on what and what shouldn't be chanaged. Arrow anchors are nice and more convient and I want them to stick around so builds stay possible for the regular user, but may just not as many so the people that are complaining would probably be a bit more content (if possible). I still think 5 is enough but 10 really is a lot.

My builds do that too, sometimes. I usually try to figure out what I do wrong but sometimes it's difficult with how random Transformice is. I'm honestly enjoying myself with this mode though and have really found interest in the game again.

Five seems reasonable.

If they could just make demolition work with V anchored items I'm pretty sure I wouldn't care about the arrows, anyway. It's fun to try and solve maps without the arrows, but sometimes I just need to use them so the build doesn't jump around.

I really don't blame you, I sometimes use them to anchor down balloons so things will be more stable but I try to avoid it just because. There's really nothing wrong with the arrow anchors it's just when people out right abuse them, if you could call it abuse or well you at least know what I mean.

Other then that, just some fixes and the mode would be great.

Shadowwinter a dit :

I really don't blame you, I sometimes use them to anchor down balloons so things will be more stable but I try to avoid it just because. There's really nothing wrong with the arrow anchors it's just when people out right abuse them, if you could call it abuse or well you at least know what I mean.

Other then that, just some fixes and the mode would be great.

That is a bit annoying, but oh well, people will be people.
Some tweaks here and there would be nice I agree. The mode has some nice potential.

Maybe some more arrows? Like 20, not 5(or 10?)

Okay, after fair 1000 saves gathered with divine mode I'll bring in some opinions, even though this seems to be an inside ring of a few people having a never ending fight about arrow anchors.

Divine mode is, I suppose, meant to be a shaman mode in which the challenge is that you can not use c- or b-anchors but anchors that are free to spin around (+ motor anchors). As an idea that seems great and so on, but you have to consider the fact that free rotation of the anchors is not the real challenge. The challenge comes from the game itself and it's mayor bugs, mainly the triple layer glitch. Sometimes the builds like to bitch around even if there clearly are no triple layer builds too. Obviously these glitches make building less sensible in other shaman modes too, but in divine mode they occur much more. I don't know if triple layer glitch or some other glitches are issue of the game code or problems of the Flash/AIR, but they're really taking away quite a bit of the enjoyability. If I were a game developer I wouldn't even think about releasing such a shaman mode with the mayor glitches around.

I was at first sure that the stat limit of divine mode was way too low, but I'm not sure about that anymore. I've been playing mostly in vanilla lately so I don't have a fair view over the situation in regular rooms, for example players building P4 maps, but most fails I've seen are by much more experienced shamans than the minimum stat limit. It's understandable that not all, even otherwise experienced, players are familiar with v-only building yet. I believe they'll all master divine mode well enough in some time, but it'll always be a challenge.

Despite all the noise about arrow anchors, I'll add in my opinion. As I woke up today the arrow anchors were limited to 10. I don't prefer this. Using "Arrow anchors can make it as stable as c-anchors" as an argument while in the next sentence stating that one can stabilize a build without arrow anchors doesn't really make sense. Could as well limit use of boxes, they're great stabilizers. Also saying arrow anchors are instant isn't true, it really takes a while to aim the anchor. You need some knowledge about the arrow anchor placement too to make the build stable. Going back to the fact of building-ruining glitches existing, sometimes when a huge build starts jerking around adding arrow anchors is the only way to save it, and while everything is jumping it's pretty hard to hit all your 10 arrow anchors well.

Considering the fact that divine mode was at first quite a challenge for even the most experienced shamans, I'd prefer unlimited arrow anchors. If you don't like using them, don't. I personally barely ever used totem in hard mode. However, most players find those modes more enjoyable with totem or arrow anchors. The point about general enjoyability comes with the huge spawning range too. Even though it seems too easy for players who have been training v-only for years I believe most of divine mode users do prefer it. To sum some of this up, it's not meant to be an impossible mode to play alone in your tribe's house, but a challenging but enjoyable mode to use in regular public rooms.

Another thing I noticed when I woke up was that the XP point bonus was removed. That really pisses me off. Since the XP system was first released it's been half of the statistical joy that you get more XP for hard mode saves. Doing the same for divine mode was really great in my opinoin. Now removing it is just annoying and decreases the motivation to use divine mode, and it doesn't make any sense. The reason for this was probably that it was thought that players will get to level 100 too fast. First players got to level 100 in less than 2 months though, and anyone who has been playing a lot has achieved it now. Instead of lowering the XP gained per save it could have been thought through earlier to make the level 100 harder to reach. Or set the maximum level higher.

All in all, giving players something and (instead of fixing bugs) removing important parts of it the next day, shows something about how poorly prepared the updates are. Fixing bugs takes years while adding new stuff that is disturbed by the same old bugs happens monthly is not a decent way to update a game. The bad developing has been a trend for quite a while now, and I see nothing weird in the player amounts dropping. It has also been pretty clear to the community that for the admins Transformice is no more a real priority, but an old project that needs something new every now and then.

Kittaii a dit :

tl;dr

o-o

Ok short version:

- The challenge of divine mode is not only freely rotating v-anchors but mainly a load of bugs, especially triple layer glitch.
- Stat limit for the divine mode seems fine.
- Unlimited arrow anchors and big spawning range make divine mode more enjoyable to the mayority.
- Divine mode is meant to be an enjoyable mode to use in public rooms, not an impossible mode to play alone in tribe's house.
- Removing the XP bonus for divine mode afterwards is stupid.
- Transformice has been badly developed and is not a priority to admins anymore.

Ruoka a dit :

Okay, after fair 1000 saves gathered with divine mode I'll bring in some opinions, even though this seems to be an inside ring of a few people having a never ending fight about arrow anchors.

[...]

All in all, giving players something and (instead of fixing bugs) removing important parts of it the next day, shows something about how poorly prepared the updates are. Fixing bugs takes years while adding new stuff that is disturbed by the same old bugs happens monthly is not a decent way to update a game. The bad developing has been a trend for quite a while now, and I see nothing weird in the player amounts dropping. It has also been pretty clear to the community that for the admins Transformice is no more a real priority, but an old project that needs something new every now and then.

I almost totaly agree with you but i think limiting the arrow was a good idea but it's too limiting , if it was limmited to 15-20 it was better i think.

Moesappel a dit :

I almost totaly agree with you but i think limiting the arrow was a good idea but it's too limiting , if it was limmited to 15-20 it was better i think.

I agree it could be fine to have some limit to avoid the HUGE spam of arrows. Would be great if only anchors that were hit would count because missing the object is the real issue, but that's way too much asked for. If only anchors that were hit would count I'd be fine with the limit of 10 or 20.

To be honest I never thought of using 2 V nails as 1 C nail until the forumers brought it up. (and I haven't even tried it out yet). I only used it to attatch planks to boxes and things of the sort. Is this considered 'cheating' too?
(By that I mean anchoring a plank to a box in two places so it doesn't rotate)