/support as long as the smaller but faster cannons skill is removed because honestly that skill would ruin survivor worse than the landslide skills already have... doubt anyone would actually be in survivor after that skill is added lol.

Flufferbug a dit :

/support as long as the smaller but faster cannons skill is removed because honestly that skill would ruin survivor worse than the landslide skills already have... doubt anyone would actually be in survivor after that skill is added lol.

It's only 5 at maximum, besides smaller things are easier to dodge.

Rubber ducks in the water?!
YESSS~~~
/support
btw if you want me to try drawing out how these can look like in game i don't mind trying :I

/support

No support. There are some good ideas however some of them are too OP. Also I do not think we need anymore skill trees than the ones we have.

/halfsupport???

some of these are okay, but a fast cannon+box would be OP...
and since the inner tube is referencing the cloud, would it be available in divine mode?

/Support :D

OMGGGGGG THIS IS PROBABLY THE BEST SKILL TREE INFRONT OF MECNICAINAN 4EU3D2EW CRNL32EWJNRG /SUPPORT

Lucycat a dit :

It's only 5 at maximum, besides smaller things are easier to dodge.

If it's only 5 at maximum, you won't expect the faster cannons when they come, and if you expect the cannon to be at normal speed but it's at a fast speed, then you'll obviously get the timing of your jump wrong and you'll die. You wouldn't be able to tell that the cannon would be fast or not because, similar to how the rocks skill shows up as a regular cannon before it spawns, this skill wouldn't actually show up as tiny before it spawned. It would show up as a regular cannon so you wouldn't even know it would be tiny or fast. Even if it did show up as a tiny cannon, this would be a huge problem because most shamans in survivor have their cannons customized so that it's already difficult to see the arrows. With tiny cannons, it would be nearly impossible to see the arrows, even without customizations of cannons. And it doesn't matter if the cannons are smaller or not, it would still be really hard to survive a cannon that fast even if it's tiny. As Sqeeak pointed out, one of these cannons with a box would make it not matter whether or not the cannons are smaller or not because the boxes would be bigger than even a normal cannon obviously.

/support

Sqeeak a dit :

and since the inner tube is referencing the cloud, would it be available in divine mode?

I would like to say yes. Seeing how a cloud can be spawned anywhere and "stay there", the inner tube is quite different as it doesn't have that ability to "stay" in the air.

Fierying a dit :

btw if you want me to try drawing out how these can look like in game i don't mind trying :I

Hehe, if you want to!
----
It seems like only the cannons people have a deal with.
I know survivor has gotten crappy since skills, but that's just how it is. If people don't like skills in survivor, protest.

Flufferbug a dit :

You wouldn't be able to tell that the cannon would be fast or not because, similar to how the rocks skill shows up as a regular cannon before it spawns

Even if it did show up as a tiny cannon, this would be a huge problem because most shamans in survivor have their cannons customized so that it's already difficult to see the arrows. With tiny cannons, it would be nearly impossible to see the arrows, even without customizations of cannons.

Lucycat a dit :

It seems like only the cannons people have a deal with.
I know survivor has gotten crappy since skills, but that's just how it is. If people don't like skills in survivor, protest.

.... everyone has been protesting. why add more crappy skills to survivor if you know people are just going to hate it? I recommend replacing the cannon skill in your tree with something else. then it'll be great.

Look,

it is not my choice of what gets added to survivor. It is not my choice that this even gets added to the game. It is not my choice that everything I planned here, will be exactly the way it would be in-game. Not my choice. Everything available in the Survivor mode is there because the Admins saw it fit.

My choice however is to discontinue this argument and keep the tree the way it is. Can't please everybody, cuz trust me, not everyone is pleased with the current skill trees. Not everybody is pleased with skill trees.

The entire game of Transformice is not survivor. Survivor's just a mode. I get it, it sucks right now, yeah, its difficult to not fully enjoy it. I personally liked it when it first appeared. (Whoever won became shaman) But keep protesting for it to change. We are lucky to be a part of a community where the people that made the game actually listen to us. I mean come on, Divine mode isn't there anymore??? That's progress.

According to your points, maybe I should mention the ridiculous totems people spawn in survivor already, the ones that makes surviving almost impossible anyway. I hope you notice that certain skills that increase the summoning circle and speed aren't there. Imagine if they were?

I'm not sure why people are expecting insta-spawn hyper speed, because that's not what the Bullet skill is. It's simply a smaller but faster cannon. A pro for a con. How fast? I don't know, just faster. A bigger, but slower cannon doesn't make sense does it? Nope. A faster normal cannon? Nope. I didn't make this to fit every game mode.

Am I angry? Nope. I'm frustrated though because this is the only idea that's been nitpicked at only because it hurts precious Survivor. It in itself is balanced.

tl;dr no

This sounds really cool to be honest
/Support

/support
I love these creative ideas.

Lucycat a dit :

My choice however is to discontinue this argument and keep the tree the way it is. Can't please everybody, cuz trust me, not everyone is pleased with the current skill trees. Not everybody is pleased with skill trees.

You're making a suggestion on a PUBLIC forum. People are giving their reasons on why a skill isn't balanced and on how it could be used unfairly. For future references, when people are giving you advice on how to improve your suggestions, you should probably take it into consideration.

Lucycat a dit :

The entire game of Transformice is not survivor. Survivor's just a mode. I get it, it sucks right now, yeah, its difficult to not fully enjoy it. I personally liked it when it first appeared. (Whoever won became shaman) But keep protesting for it to change. That's progress.

You are making a skill that is based on the survivor game mode. No one would need a fast cannon skill in vanilla or regular rooms, would they?

Lucycat a dit :

We are lucky to be a part of a community where the people that made the game actually listen to us.

Too bad the people making suggestions don't.

Lucycat a dit :

According to your points, maybe I should mention the ridiculous totems people spawn in survivor already, the ones that makes surviving almost impossible anyway.

This isn't about totems. People have been asking for totems to be removed from survivor since forever, why add a skill that everyone is AGAIN going to ask to be removed?

Lucycat a dit :

I hope you notice that certain skills that increase the summoning circle and speed aren't there. Imagine if they were?

The eagle eye skill IS still in survivor. Perhaps you should try to play the gamemode sometime before you try to make skills modifying it?

Lucycat a dit :

I'm not sure why people are expecting insta-spawn hyper speed, because that's not what the Bullet skill is. It's simply a smaller but faster cannon. A pro for a con. How fast? I don't know, just faster.

I can't imagine a cannon going faster than it already does without it being incredibly fast.

Lucycat a dit :

A bigger, but slower cannon doesn't make sense does it? Nope. A faster normal cannon? Nope. I didn't make this to fit every game mode.

But you could have at least tried to make it fit with survivor, the main game mode it effects? Or maybe make it fit with the whole theme of your skill tree? Because I don't see how small fast cannons will help anyone on water maps.

Lucycat a dit :

Am I angry? Nope. I'm frustrated though because this is the only idea that's been nitpicked at only because it hurts precious Survivor. It in itself is balanced.

Again. Where else am I going to use this skill? Killing the other sham on vanilla/normal maps can be done with a normal cannon easily. This skill is just really unnecessary.

Flufferbug a dit :

Again. Where else am I going to use this skill? Killing the other sham on vanilla/normal maps can be done with a normal cannon easily. This skill is just really unnecessary.

may i just say;

1. let's just point out the fact that you're nitpicking one of the many skills on this tree. who ever said you needed to use the skill? if you don't deem it necessary, don't acquire the skill. it's quite simple.

2. it's 'really unnecessary'. i can agree on that in vanilla, however, if you're implying it's so unnecessary that it shouldn't even be included within the skill tree, may i just point out even more unnecessary skills, such as the 'campfire' in wilding, or the 'chocokiss' in wind master. i don't deem them necessary, so i did not acquire them. besides, how does 'chocokiss' relate to a wind master? 'anger' relate to a physicist?

3. if you noticed, the bullet skill clearly reads "# smaller but faster cannons". at the very most, you can use five smaller but faster cannons. it's a bit of a feat to defeat an entire room of mice with five small and swift cannons, i'd hope you'd agree. sure, as noted before, this would prove to be rather powerful if cannoned with a box. but again, as noted before, there are only 5 cannons. personally, if you can defeat an entire room using 5 of said small and quick cannons, that's impressive. i think that's what leads me to my ultimate point: a limited amount of slightly more powerful cannons does not guarantee the complete elimination of a group of mice.

sure, i can agree by saying it isn't too relative to a skill tree that revolves around water, but it isn't too easy to think up several unique water skills that have not been invented; rather, did you have a better idea in mind? if do, please share. i think that lucy would take that into more consideration than this arguing.

Marcyyxx a dit :

1. let's just point out the fact that you're nitpicking one of the many skills on this tree. who ever said you needed to use the skill? if you don't deem it necessary, don't acquire the skill. it's quite simple.

We're nitpicking because it has the potential to make the game unbalanced and unfair. I'm not worried about having to use the skill. The problem isn't for the people who get the skill, it's for the players who would have to deal with shamans using this overpowered skill.

Marcyyxx a dit :

2. it's 'really unnecessary'. i can agree on that in vanilla, however, if you're implying it's so unnecessary that it shouldn't even be included within the skill tree, may i just point out even more unnecessary skills, such as the 'campfire' in wilding, or the 'chocokiss' in wind master.

Yes, campfire and chocokiss can be considered unnecessary, seeing as they're just used for fun. They don't offer anything to the gameplay other than a brief change of animation, but the bullet actually would effect the entire gameplay of survivor. Thee chocokiss and wildfire don't have the potential to make the game unbalanced and unfair, while this skill does.

Marcyyxx a dit :

i don't deem them necessary, so i did not acquire them. besides, how does 'chocokiss' relate to a wind master? 'anger' relate to a physicist?

Seeing how this whole skill tree was suggested under the guise of making water maps easier, and more fun to sham on, I fail to see how a small fast cannon would help anyone. That's wasting a whole skill to something that could be put towards a more requested skill, something that could actually be useful.

Marcyyxx a dit :

3. if you noticed, the bullet skill clearly reads "# smaller but faster cannons". at the very most, you can use five smaller but faster cannons. it's a bit of a feat to defeat an entire room of mice with five small and swift cannons, i'd hope you'd agree. sure, as noted before, this would prove to be rather powerful if cannoned with a box. but again, as noted before, there are only 5 cannons. personally, if you can defeat an entire room using 5 of said small and quick cannons, that's impressive. i think that's what leads me to my ultimate point: a limited amount of slightly more powerful cannons does not guarantee the complete elimination of a group of mice.

You obviously haven't played survivor too much either. Plenty of people can easily kill a whole room with 5 or less NORMAL cannons. Any flat map with a fast cannon and box, that's a whole room dead. And it would only take around 2 boxcannons to do the trick. As I pointed out earlier, you won't be able to tell which ones are the fast cannons and which ones are the slow cannons. If they're expecting a slow box, experienced players would know how to deal with it, but then if there's a chance that it could be a slow box OR a fast box, they won't know how to deal with it because they won't know which one it is. Any survivor map that has a trampoline to bounce your cannon off of would make the faster cannon even faster, and has the potential to make the cannon, as Lucycat said, "insta-spawn hyper speed."

Marcyyxx a dit :

sure, i can agree by saying it isn't too relative to a skill tree that revolves around water, but it isn't too easy to think up several unique water skills that have not been invented; rather, did you have a better idea in mind? if do, please share. i think that lucy would take that into more consideration than this arguing.

First of all, this isn't really an argument. It is me trying to give you reasons not to add this terrible skill to transformice, since no one would want to deal with it. And sure, I'd be fine with suggesting other skills, but Lucycat seems hellbent on keeping the cannons in this skill tree, even though they have nothing to offer, other than being yet another skill to ruin survivor. Plus, Lucycat hasn't even said one GOOD reason why this skill should be added.

I'm not trying to speak for all of survivor, but as someone who mainly plays survivor, this skill would NOT receive a warm welcome. And although Lucycat played survivor in 2010, they obviously do not play it as much anymore, and neither do you Marcy, since you have 0 survivor rounds played on your profile. I don't think you should try to change something that you rarely play.