I imagine there's a lot of people that want to join their tribes (I'm sure they get a lot of whispers about it, too). So keeping up with everyone who wants to be would more than likely be impossible.. At least as I see it. I'm sure they might prefer a more natural approach than a forced one, too. I mean, what do I know? Not much, really. :p

lel

Shadowwinter a dit :

I imagine there's a lot of people that want to join their tribes (I'm sure they get a lot of whispers about it, too). So keeping up with everyone who wants to be would more than likely be impossible.

Naw, KwL/TFR/etc are just elitists. Obviously they should rather accept random people they don't know well because that has proven to be the best way to keep a tribe friendly and mature, right.

On another note, I've noticed the admins have finally started listening to the community. There's been a few very nice changes that were requested by the players lately, I hope this trend continues. Maybe there is still hope for the game.

Ifrancesco a dit :

And it's also obvious that the staff won't let anyone "random" come into their tribes because they will be talking about "secret stuff" that iis not intended to be known to the vast majority of players.

I hope you're not basing this off of any specific staff member. I don't know about other tribes with staff members but in KwL we don't talk about "secret stuff", because it's not really appropriate and because we're not exactly allowed to. I could see this being the case for a tribe made entirely of staff members but that's pretty rare. We have in-game staff chats to discuss private matters.

Mine was a former staff tribe (Heronius, Jeroenm, and a couple of arbs smellyLiam alt) , obviously they HAVE to trust people, Can you imagine somebody that as access to a list of arbs and make it public? I know many secret mods but they somehow trust me and I keep their secret because it's stupid not to imho.
Can you actually say the same about all the players in game?
I think that having access to some staff secret will make your mouth really large.

Prr a dit :

Shadowwinter a dit :VoirMasquer

I imagine there's a lot of people that want to join their tribes (I'm sure they get a lot of whispers about it, too). So keeping up with everyone who wants to be would more than likely be impossible.

Naw, KwL/TFR/etc are just elitists. Obviously they should rather accept random people they don't know well because that has proven to be the best way to keep a tribe friendly and mature, right.

I wasn't trying to imply that -- I'm sorry if it came off as I was. I wasn't saying they should accept random people, I was just saying it's probably best not to burden the people in those tribes with it.

Shadowwinter a dit :

Prr a dit :VoirMasquer

Shadowwinter a dit :VoirMasquer

I imagine there's a lot of people that want to join their tribes (I'm sure they get a lot of whispers about it, too). So keeping up with everyone who wants to be would more than likely be impossible.

Naw, KwL/TFR/etc are just elitists. Obviously they should rather accept random people they don't know well because that has proven to be the best way to keep a tribe friendly and mature, right.

I wasn't trying to imply that -- I'm sorry if it came off as I was. I wasn't saying they should accept random people, I was just saying it's probably best not to burden the people in those tribes with it.

I got what you meant. I think you might've just missed the tiny bit of sarcasm my post had in it.

Prr a dit :

Shadowwinter a dit :VoirMasquer

Prr a dit :VoirMasquer

Shadowwinter a dit :VoirMasquer

I imagine there's a lot of people that want to join their tribes (I'm sure they get a lot of whispers about it, too). So keeping up with everyone who wants to be would more than likely be impossible.

Naw, KwL/TFR/etc are just elitists. Obviously they should rather accept random people they don't know well because that has proven to be the best way to keep a tribe friendly and mature, right.

I wasn't trying to imply that -- I'm sorry if it came off as I was. I wasn't saying they should accept random people, I was just saying it's probably best not to burden the people in those tribes with it.

I got what you meant. I think you might've just missed the tiny bit of sarcasm my post had in it.

Yeeeah, I kind of realized that a bit later after reading my post back a few times. That was my bad.

Anyway to throw things back on topic.. The new time feature is really nice, if only I played more often so I could watch the days go up even higher haha.

Veralidaine a dit :

I hope you're not basing this off of any specific staff member. I don't know about other tribes with staff members but in KwL we don't talk about "secret stuff", because it's not really appropriate and because we're not exactly allowed to. I could see this being the case for a tribe made entirely of staff members but that's pretty rare. We have in-game staff chats to discuss private matters.

I'm basing this over my experience, I know how staff works, but i also know that some chat about something related to the staff, can ends in a tribe chat, for many reasons (even typing in the wrong tab, i'm not saying that people is sharing top secret stuff you know it's something that can happen since the chat in game is borked).
I'm not tryin to say that they were sharing supermega top secrets, but let's be honest, If you play with a secret mod all day because he's a tribemate, you'll notice it in a matter of days if you're not blind.
I'm not accusing anyone of being unprofessional here. I'm just sharing my own personal experience based on almost 5 years of playing, of being in a former "staff tribe" and so on.

Do you know the saying that goes something like this: "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"? I mean, okay maybe that's the truth; but I think keeping things diplomatic (hopes I got this one right; tactful) is better? Despite they might not be "big secrets" someone might get in trouble. Just my opinion here.

Ifrancesco a dit :

Veralidaine a dit :VoirMasquer

I hope you're not basing this off of any specific staff member. I don't know about other tribes with staff members but in KwL we don't talk about "secret stuff", because it's not really appropriate and because we're not exactly allowed to. I could see this being the case for a tribe made entirely of staff members but that's pretty rare. We have in-game staff chats to discuss private matters.

I'm basing this over my experience, I know how staff works, but i also know that some chat about something related to the staff, can ends in a tribe chat, for many reasons (even typing in the wrong tab, i'm not saying that people is sharing top secret stuff you know it's something that can happen since the chat in game is borked).
I'm not tryin to say that they were sharing supermega top secrets, but let's be honest, If you play with a secret mod all day because he's a tribemate, you'll notice it in a matter of days if you're not blind.
I'm not accusing anyone of being unprofessional here. I'm just sharing my own personal experience based on almost 5 years of playing, of being in a former "staff tribe" and so on.

4 years in kwl and I've not seen a single tribemate who was an arb actually blurt it out in tribechat (ever since arbs became secret that is). Sure I've figured out some of them, but I've never seen a point in saying anything about it. Same goes the alts of mods, you can obviously figure those out when you know exactly who is online and active, but it's not like the mods themselves would announce their alts in tribe. And as far other modstuff goes, very little of that is being shared either (basically nothing you couldn't just ask about from the mods themselves if you know a one).

The tribechat is obviously not suited for public, but that's not because of "secret stuff" but because the chat is quite a bit more mature than the game allows in public.

a dit :

I'm basing this over my experience, I know how staff works, but i also know that some chat about something related to the staff, can ends in a tribe chat, for many reasons (even typing in the wrong tab, i'm not saying that people is sharing top secret stuff you know it's something that can happen since the chat in game is borked).
I'm not tryin to say that they were sharing supermega top secrets, but let's be honest, If you play with a secret mod all day because he's a tribemate, you'll notice it in a matter of days if you're not blind.

I hate whan I have to quote myself.

I'm not saying that they were sharing secret stuff, I'm saying that having a lot of secret (and not) staff members in a tribe and a whole lot of normal players in it can cause a leak of informations for the reasons I stated above.
I'm not saying that I shared informations with anyone or I'm going to create a "transforleaks" file or anything.
And most important, I'm not saying that those staff members were unprofessional or anything.

If you're going to say I'm doing this I don't care, I've been accused of things so many times that I honestly don't give a damn about.

Prr a dit :

4 years in kwl and I've not seen a single tribemate who was an arb actually blurt it out in tribechat (ever since arbs became secret that is). Sure I've figured out some of them, but I've never seen a point in saying anything about it. Same goes the alts of mods, you can obviously figure those out when you know exactly who is online and active, but it's not like the mods themselves would announce their alts in tribe.

I'm not saying that they spoiled their position, but as you said, if you're smart enough you can figure it out.

That being said, you're missing the whole point of what I said in my first post.

Being those tribe formed by a good amount of staff members some information can be leaked, because of human error, because some other player finds out something and wants to make it public, It's obvious that the people who joins those tribes has to be entrusted.

Ifrancesco a dit :

Mine was a former staff tribe (Heronius, Jeroenm, and a couple of arbs smellyLiam alt) , obviously they HAVE to trust people, Can you imagine somebody that as access to a list of arbs and make it public? I know many secret mods but they somehow trust me and I keep their secret because it's stupid not to imho.
Can you actually say the same about all the players in game?
I think that having access to some staff secret will make your mouth really large.

So...you're saying that someone has leaked arb lists to you? I don't really understand where you're trying to go with that.

I guess I can't speak for all staff but for all staff it is inappropriate to leak info to their tribe chat. The only reason I am trying to address what you are saying is because you are painting a very strange picture here and I would imagine that you might be leading some people to believe that if they join a "mod tribe" they will instantly be privy to secret info that the vast majority of players aren't. So I wanted to say that this is incorrect (for KwL at least) because you're only going to make the "can I join your tribe??" whisper spam even worse for the people in tribes with mods.

Ifrancesco a dit :

Being those tribe formed by a good amount of staff members some information can be leaked, because of human error, because some other player finds out something and wants to make it public, It's obvious that the people who joins those tribes has to be entrusted.

You weren't saying that info is leaked in these tribes due to "human error" though (and really, how much information can someone get from one w/c?), you were saying that staff members in your tribe used to share secret info with you voluntarily.

a dit :

Naw, KwL/TFR/etc are just elitists. Obviously they should rather accept random people they don't know well because that has proven to be the best way to keep a tribe friendly and mature, right.

That's not what I was getting at. Tbh, if they see someone actually trying to be apart of their tribe seems like they would actually try to get to know that person before making any accusations/assumption/etc. and not letting this person become a part of something new. Kind of like when they hire a new mod. Current mods help train the new ones and get to know them. Why can't the same happen for these tribes?

I could have already told you that talking about private moderation stuff was inappropriate for tribe chats anyway.

Ifrancesco a dit :

Being those tribe formed by a good amount of staff members some information can be leaked, because of human error, because some other player finds out something and wants to make it public, It's obvious that the people who joins those tribes has to be entrusted.

Right ok, gotcha. You did say that the mods will be talking about "secret stuff" that is not intended to be known which made me think you were implying that they're actually sharing stuff to their tribemates like it was modchat. And yes, you're correct, it's generally a bad idea to recruit people who are liable to share stuff that isn't meant to be shared, thus the illusion of elitism surrounding the "modtribes".

Arh let's try to figure this out, it's too hot and I'm making things worse because i can hardly express myself with 43 degrees.

I'm not saying that there are lists or anything, and i don't own any sort of list and i'm not interesed in it. I'm just saying that having secret staff members in a tribe make them easier to find. Am i wrong?

I'm saying that when there were Mods in my tribe has happened that the chat borked and they ended writing in tribe chat instead of the staff chat. It's something that can happen. fair and square. And obviously it's anyone fault. I'm not saying that anyone was using the tribe chat as the private mods chat.

I'm saying that because of the things I said above, tribes with a lot of members have to be "choosy" when adding a member. Because as Prr sais
"Same goes the alts of mods, you can obviously figure those out when you know exactly who is online and active, but it's not like the mods themselves would announce their alts in tribe." Same goes with all the secret staff members.

If i made someone think something different it wasn't my purpose, and I apologise.

a dit :

You weren't saying that info is leaked in these tribes due to "human error" though (and really, how much information can someone get from one w/c?), you were saying that staff members in your tribe used to share secret info with you voluntarily.

I didn't said that the were freely talking about stuff either because they were willing to share them with anybody either.
I specified my post immediatly after.

And a w/c can actually give you a lot of informations.

And yes, Prr got what i was trying to say.
Again I apologise if i made it worse, it wasn't my purpose.

Veralidaine a dit :

I hope you're not basing this off of any specific staff member. I don't know about other tribes with staff members but in KwL we don't talk about "secret stuff", because it's not really appropriate and because we're not exactly allowed to. I could see this being the case for a tribe made entirely of staff members but that's pretty rare. We have in-game staff chats to discuss private matters.

When I was sentinel, I was in KWL for a time and a lot of arb talk went on actually. I would hope it's improved since then.
I ended up know about half of the EN arbs at that time thanks to being in the tribe. x)

Broncosfan a dit :

a dit :VoirMasquer

Naw, KwL/TFR/etc are just elitists. Obviously they should rather accept random people they don't know well because that has proven to be the best way to keep a tribe friendly and mature, right.

That's not what I was getting at. Tbh, if they see someone actually trying to be apart of their tribe seems like they would actually try to get to know that person before making any accusations/assumption/etc. and not letting this person become a part of something new. Kind of like when they hire a new mod. Current mods help train the new ones and get to know them. Why can't the same happen for these tribes?

I could have already told you that talking about private moderation stuff was inappropriate for tribe chats anyway.

But you see, you have the people who wanna be in those tribes because they want to be with the people, and then you have the people who want to join for staff. Even as little staff as TFR has (Yogiibear, Flipgraham, Bigrick, Tyyphoon, Jordynl and Noedles), we get it often. We see asskissers apply and sometimes they make it through the rec stage, but then die at the doorstep of voting because we know what they're all about. Even if you present yourself well to us in an app, we watch for other behaviour, and if we see them being asskissy or something then we know for sure.
Plus there'll always be the post of "oh, watch out for x, he's a kissup."
So of course, people are going to be closed to "new people" unless they can tell they have a genuine interest in becoming a member of the tribe.

I guess with that said, makes me feel like I'm an asskisser or something. :(
I applied to TFR a couple times, first time denied right away and no response as to why. Second time was the fact that nobody wanted new recruits, but a couple days later a couple of my friends got in.
Apparently there's no explanation for that other than I come across as an asskisser or just disliked for some reason.

I honestly could care less if I become a mod or not. I'll keep applying and make a fool out of myself everytime I guess. :/
Mostly just looking for new people to meet and some respect.

I'd just like to make a post here explaining my thoughts on the subject of "being in certain tribes makes it easier to become staff" and "staff only hire their friends".

I can only give my opinions from experience in Crossing Borders and A Beautiful Mess, but I'm pretty sure the same will also go for other tribes like Kittens With Lazers and The Furry Revolution. In Crossing Borders we currently have 93 members total (about 10 of which are alts), where 21 are current members of staff and 8 are ex-staff members, but we're all friends regardless of if we're staff or not.

---

1) People work together on staff teams. Members of the teams have to talk to eachother on a daily basis, so it's only natural that they form some kind of friendship over time. Moderators go through months of training (sometimes over a year) before becoming public so there's plenty of time for them to befriend other members of staff during that time.

2) As people, we befriend people we like. This is just human nature and nothing to do with favouritism. Members of staff need to be mature, approachable and modest, which are all things that are great to have in friends too - especially in tribes when lots of people are talking and discussions being meaningful and mature is preferred most of the time. Some of these players gravitate together to be friends, and it's only a coincidence that they may also be suitable for staff.

3) Being friends with staff can be good or bad. Don't just assume that being a friend with a member of staff is good. We vote on every applicant individually and objectively - and if someoene is close friends with an applicant they usually abstain from voting. Every applicant for a staff position is looked into in-depth, their history taken into consideration and it can be both good and bad. Friends often say things to one-another that they wouldn't to a member of staff, and spend a lot of time together - this isn't the ultimate deciding factor but it does allow us to know if someone can deal with stress, public player's reactions, etc.

4) We hire people that aren't friends with any staff, and reject people that are friends with staff. It's not just as black and white as "you'll only get in if you're friends with a staff member".

5) It depends if they're good at the job. This really is the main factor taken into consideration and this is often evident from just the application with no additional information.

a dit :

2) As people, we befriend people we like. This is just human nature and nothing to do with favouritism. Members of staff need to be mature, approachable and modest, which are all things that are great to have in friends too - especially in tribes when lots of people are talking and discussions being meaningful and mature is preferred most of the time. Some of these players gravitate together to be friends, and it's only a coincidence that they may also be suitable for staff.

Right there. You befriend people you like. Well, if you're around certain people quite a bit and play in rooms with them you become accustom to them and their personality. Correct? You're either not going to like them or you'll want to see them around more and friend them.

From what I've seen (and correct me if I'm wrong by all means) is that everyone who has gotten promoted to be some kind of staff whether it's map crew, sentinel, moderation, whatever....by what I've and several others have seen, is that these staff members get arrogant and cocky. Yeah, you might get tons of whispers about random, needless stuff or lots of fangirls that are wanna-be asskissers. But for those who actually would like to be friends because you are a cool person, we get pushed away. Someone of genuine quality needs help or is reporting terrible incidents gets turned away because Mods and other staff have their whispers disabled or don't even respond to this person's messages when the Mod clearly is NOT afk.

How is this explained? Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong. Those of you who are around these staff members all the time don't see it, but if you were an outside mouse you'd feel like you and your concerns don't matter.