I /only/ play in normal, numbered rooms, so lets clear that up. I also care very much about shamming. But the main purpose of normal rooms is to get cheese and get it back to the hole as fast as possible. Not to just complete the map, but to complete the map faster than anyone else.

Adding your suggestion takes away what the core purpose of the game is. And while you are sham, you should attempt to save as many mice as you can as fast as possible. Those are the two core purposes of normal rooms.

no, that's the purpose of racing.

Who are you to tell me the point is racing? How do you race in P4, P5, P6, P8 (essentially every non-racing category)? Someone who "/only/ play in normal, numbered rooms"? Guess what: me too.

Also, please stay on topic. Nobody is getting "so emotional" about anything. You gave an invalid reason (telling me what the purpose of the game is when there is none) and I explained that the purpose of the game is whatever you want it to be, NOT racing.

You didn't state an opinion. You told me what the purpose of the game is. That's not agreeing or disagreeing, that's you insisting this is the objective when it quite clearly is not. You can only agree or disagree on an opinion, not a statement in which you say "this is the purpose, period."


Let me tell you why *I* play. MY purpose for each map. Just as evidence people play the game differently.
P4 - To solve the map as SIMPLY and ELEGANTLY as possible. No, not "quickly," I want my build to be SIMPLE and pleasant to look at--sometimes even exotic.
P5 - To figure out what grounds do what. Because really, you never know anymore.
P6 - To strategically find the closest path to cheese. This isn't exactly racing, this involves sitting-still-and-thinking.
P7 - To race.
P8 - To kill the other shaman when they least expect it.
P9 - To not die.
Vanilla - ???
Vanilla (collision) - To not die.


Also, most of these bonuses have to do with racing, so the fuck are you even complaining about?
Blur of Fur: essentially attained by executing an epic shortcut. A racing element, awards you for racing with some creativity and skill. Astonishing! An award for not only getting achieving first, but going about and beyond! Has nothing to do with racing, clearly.

If you're just getting first every round with no competition nor challenge and find that fun that's you, but I find it boring and monotonous.

One, I'm wasn't directly telling you the purpose of the game. I was generally stating the purpose in order to prove my point.

Two, nearly every map is raceable. (P4) Once the sham finishes the build you race to complete it, because the build becomes a feature of the map. (P5) Many of the art maps can be completed with no sham; admittingly finding out what is real ground is difficult but it is part of the gameplay and learning of the game. The maps that aren't soloable are the same as P4 maps, once the build is completed it become part of the map and you finish as fast as possible (P6) Again same as the soloablity comment in P5 and the completion of the build like P4 and P5. (P8) Same as P4 and P5.

Three, there is an obvious purpose, why do you think Tig made profiles that tracked stats such as Cheese Gathered and Firsts? Because the purpose of the game is to get cheese and take it back to the hole.

Four, my opinion was clear. I stated the purpose and said that your suggestion does not align with the purpose.

Five, on P4 and P8 you are speaking from the point of view of the sham; considering that the majority of the time you are a normal mouse during those maps you have to see it on that side.

Six, so on every map you sit there besides P4 and P7 and just look at the features of the map and slowly test every possibilty? I doubt it. I may be wrong, I am open to that possibility, but i doubt you take the full 2 minutes in order to appriecate the map.

I'm not saying this is the only purpose of the game but it's the number one purpose for normal mice in a normal numbered room. And all my opinions are coming from that point of view. I understand that each person plays the game for a different reason, but you don't understand that adding these features doesn't improve the main purpose. While individuals play for a different reason the game it self has a main goal. Get cheese, don't die, be first. Your suggestion doesn't improve any of them.

Everything CAN be a race. But everybody doesn't speedrun Super Mario, do they? No, they play through it normally. Racing isn't the sole purpose of playing this game, it's just something you CAN do.

Dablizzack a dit :

Because the purpose of the game is to get cheese and take it back to the hole.

Plain and simple.

So knock it off, you look bad trying to stand by your mistake.


and just so you don't start thinking you're any kind of right

Dablizzack a dit :

Five, on P4 and P8 you are speaking from the point of view of the sham; considering that the majority of the time you are a normal mouse during those maps you have to see it on that side.

Shaman is a core part of the game.

Dablizzack a dit :

Six, so on every map you sit there besides P4 and P7 and just look at the features of the map and slowly test every possibilty? I doubt it. I may be wrong, I am open to that possibility, but i doubt you take the full 2 minutes in order to appriecate the map.

Contrastingly, I doubt you analyze the entire map in a microsecond. Nor did I even say this for any category besides P6, so way to put words in my mouth.

Dablizzack a dit :

I'm not saying this is the only purpose of the game but it's the number one purpose for normal mice in a normal numbered room.

Nice statistic.


Now, reread this, then get out of this thread.

Fxie a dit :

Also, most of these bonuses have to do with racing, so the fuck are you even complaining about?
Blur of Fur: essentially attained by executing an epic shortcut. A racing element, awards you for racing with some creativity and skill. Astonishing! An award for not only getting achieving first, but going about and beyond! Has nothing to do with racing, clearly.

If you're just getting first every round with no competition nor challenge and find that fun that's you, but I find it boring and monotonous.

Again? Certainly.

Fxie a dit :

Also, most of these bonuses have to do with racing, so the fuck are you even complaining about?

Rhetorical; you have nothing to complain about.

support

fxie most creative mouse 2011-2013 and onwards

/50%Support.
Reasonable idea :3

Okay I'm too lazy to quote because this forum makes it difficult, but in my opinion this suggestion just seems kind of... not well thought out.

Firstly, they would be difficult/very time consuming to implement. How do you expect Tig to code a way for the game to tell which mouse went the highest? Doesn't seem easy to me.

Also, a lot of these don't really seem like acheivements, for example "Spacemouse" and the one where you get points for not getting cheese back to the hole (you know, the aim of the game).

I haven't read all of his posts but for the most part I agree with Dablizzack. Also, you could actually take account of what he's saying rather than just attacking him because he dislikes your suggestion, because he ahs actually taken the time to give some valid points against what isn't a particularly good suggestion.

Oshoe a dit :

Firstly, they would be difficult/very time consuming to implement. How do you expect Tig to code a way for the game to tell which mouse went the highest? Doesn't seem easy to me.

All you would have to do is keep track of the mice's y coordinates, and have a loop to check to see if a mouse went higher than the current highest.

Tomdizzy a dit :

All you would have to do is keep track of the mice's y coordinates, and have a loop to check to see if a mouse went higher than the current highest.

Yes but how many lines of code must Tig write in order to put it in? Also, that is additional data the servers must compute for every single mouse in game.

Dablizzack a dit :

Yes but how many lines of code must Tig write in order to put it in? Also, that is additional data the servers must compute for every single mouse in game.

It's a value that's already being used. A loop must just be added to keep track of it.

And why is everyone complaining that it would be hard to impliment? On top of the fact that it's not, if you really wanted something added wouldn't you want tig to take the time out to do it for you?
Or does that only apply to your own ideas?

If I wanted something added ofc I would want Tig to take time and do it, but only if the suggestion is worth implimenting. But I'd rather have Tig doing things that improve the game, like fixing the dual-sham glitch which he just did.

Also yes the game keeps track of x and y values but it doesn't store them. All it does is say if you are higher than a set value you die. It doesn't hold onto the values for the whole 2 minutes of the map.

This isn't a "my suggestion is right, yours is wrong". Me saying these things is this one suggestion is not a good idea. No attack on the person who suggested it or who support it. I am arguing purely on the need for this suggestion.

Dablizzack a dit :

Yes but how many lines of code must Tig write in order to put it in? Also, that is additional data the servers must compute for every single mouse in game.

here u go

onychange
yMax=Math.max(yMax,y)

onroundend
yMaxTotal=0
yMaxUser=0
players.forEach(function(player){
if(player.yMax>yMaxTotal){
yMaxTotal=player.yMax
yMaxUser=player.id
}
})

there u go

Oshoe a dit :

Okay I'm too lazy to quote because this forum makes it difficult, but in my opinion this suggestion just seems kind of... not well thought out.

Firstly, they would be difficult/very time consuming to implement. How do you expect Tig to code a way for the game to tell which mouse went the highest? Doesn't seem easy to me.

Also, a lot of these don't really seem like acheivements, for example "Spacemouse" and the one where you get points for not getting cheese back to the hole (you know, the aim of the game).

I haven't read all of his posts but for the most part I agree with Dablizzack. Also, you could actually take account of what he's saying rather than just attacking him because he dislikes your suggestion, because he ahs actually taken the time to give some valid points against what isn't a particularly good suggestion.

Refer to above

also, lel, no, he's just saying "this is the point of the game and there's absolutely no other way you can play the game besides the way I do"

and the stuff in op are just general random ideas; if you wanted better ones than "Spacemouse" you could suggest some like OP suggests you do as well.

Dablizzack a dit :

I'm not saying this is the only purpose of the game but it's the number one purpose for normal mice in a normal numbered room.

I said this was not the only purpose but the main one. So as you said "don't put words in my mouth". Getting angry that someone directly quotes you and then putting quotes around something I never said or was even close to say is very mature.

I wasn't saying just the "Spacemouse" was a poorly thought out suggestion but the suggestion as a whole to change the points system is not nessasary and adds not value to game.

And you didn't take into consideration my entire post. The x and y values of mice are tracked, not recored. For this to work, you would need to record the y values for up to a minute. And if you did the "Underrat" suggestion you would have to record who got to the cheese first on every map. Another thing that adds strain to the server. Maybe it doesn't add many lines, but it does take away from the computing power of the server.

And I am not going to suggest more ideas if I think the general concept is flawed. That makes no sense.

I won't try to explain how programming works to someone who doesn't know jack about it. Also when I quoted Oshoe, I wasn't talking to you, so get lost.

If you don't like being rewarded for performing better while mostly still freaking racing, then that's you, but you've made that opinion clear and now you're not contributing crap so get out.

Fxie a dit :

also, lel, no, he's just saying "this is the point of the game and there's absolutely no other way you can play the game besides the way I do"

Dablizzack a dit :

Getting angry that someone directly quotes you and then putting quotes around something I never said

I said you put quotes around something, not quote.

And I am adding to the thread, I may not know how to program but I do understand what adding lines of codes that require information to be recorded strains any computer/server. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I am not trying to be mean or rude, I'm simply trying to point out flaws of this. And since you are being very active in your responses to me I am just trying to defend my position like you.

Storing variables barely requires any resources, especially if it's in the scope of the room and not each individual socket (in which case it'd make no difference if it was a 1 or 100 mouse room). Adding anything requires storing more variables, and it's a seriously minute task to begin with. For my game, I have enough resources available to constantly update player names, x/y coordinates, ship, and direction right now. TFM is already optimized to the bitch so most things are static, so their load issues are even smaller than mine albeit having a large playerbase.

So, yeah, obviously you need to record things to add new stuff like this, but it's not a big deal. You could record anything at any time just by saying "variable=value" and that information takes up little to no space compared to the vast unallocated memory in RAM.

You seem to think recording variables is a big deal, but it's the most fundamental thing in programming.

[quote="Fxie"]Refer to above

also, lel, no, he's just saying "this is the point of the game and there's absolutely no other way you can play the game besides the way I do"

and the stuff in op are just general random ideas; if you wanted better ones than "Spacemouse" you could suggest some like OP suggests you do as well.[/quote]

Ok I know nothing about programming but I'm going to go ahead and not just blindly accept that as the code.

Honestly I don't think it's a good idea in general, I don't see any need to add meaningless stats to the game, but that's just my two cents. If the admins like it, then that's cool too.

Fxie a dit :

Just a crappy suggestion that won't ever be implented nor concidered. Please don't waste the energy to say that this isn't importantas people have done in the past.

I agree with this that it won't be implented (No offence or anything), but you don't see me still saying that this is worst Idea of the year 2013 (or 2012 as this was made lastyear).

Oshoe a dit :

Ok I know nothing about programming but I'm going to go ahead and not just blindly accept that as the code.

Honestly I don't think it's a good idea in general, I don't see any need to add meaningless stats to the game, but that's just my two cents. If the admins like it, then that's cool too.

That's not the ACTUAL code because I don't know what language Tig is writing on the server end, but that IS a universal representation of the implementation. Any language can adapt that--it's nothing but a for loop, conditional, math, and setting variables (4 fundamental features of all languages necessary to perform any operation).

It's not meaningless, it awards you for playing in more exotic, nonmonotonous (or simply more skillful) ways by bumping up your shaman turn (which, as established by the points system, is a goal which mice play better to reach).

If you don't personally find it that enticing, I can't change that. I think many other skilled mice looking for a rewarding challenge would though.