Finland a dit :

Well... look at this thread. It was over-powered and made things way too easy. ...I probably would have reduced it to just two or three myself, but them's the breaks.

It's supposed to be powerful in the hands of a skilled and experienced shaman. Just look at all my exhibits. I didn't just randomly spawn clouds; they were expertly placed and planned ahead. Not all shamans can solve all the maps with just clouds. What is possible with clouds is possible with planks.

It didn't make the game too easy; we just make it look easy.

Seeteegee a dit :

What is possible with clouds is possible with planks.

Not really, since clouds don't move vertically, while planks have to be anchored to or supported by something in order to be stable.

As you demonstrated in your first post, clouds made "hard mode" building very easy.

I guess you have to congratulate yourself and your thread for bringing this to the admins' attention.

Thisisnobody a dit :

Not really, since clouds don't move vertically, while planks have to be anchored to or supported by something in order to be stable.

Exactly. You can achieve stability with regular planks; it just took more time. Clouds just made it convenient for us shamans to build faster. What is possible with clouds can be replicated with other items. It just took more time. Basically, clouds made possible maps convenient. They didn't make the impossible possible.

Thisisnobody a dit :

As you demonstrated in your first post, clouds made "hard mode" building very easy.

Exactly, clouds just made things easier. That's what powerups do. You also seemed to not notice that I said "in the hands of the right shaman". I didn't randomly spawn clouds to insta-solve maps. I expertly placed and anchored them in the right spots.

Those who can solve maps with clouds can solve them with regular planks anyway. It just made it more interesting and fun for us who can. Why take that away over a probably nonexistent game economy issue?

well right before the update i had a cloud totem
go me

Seeteegee a dit :

Exactly. You can achieve stability with regular planks; it just took more time.

And more skill, particularly if you have no B anchors.

Seeteegee a dit :

Exactly, clouds just made things easier.

A lot easier, in fact - especially in hard mode. That's why they got limited.

Seeteegee a dit :

You also seemed to not notice that I said "in the hands of the right shaman". I didn't randomly spawn clouds to insta-solve maps. I expertly placed and anchored them in the right spots.

I did notice - but it's irrelevant. It doesn't take expertise to anchor a few clouds together. Any shaman who knows how to use anchors can do that. So any mediocre shaman could use them to solve maps that they would not be able to solve with planks. Easy save farming, basically.

Thisisnobody a dit :

And more skill, particularly if you have no B anchors.

Nope. A shaman who can stabilize using clouds can also stabilize using planks. The only issue is time.

Thisisnobody a dit :

A lot easier, in fact - especially in hard mode. That's why they got limited.

No, they got limited because Tig is an absolute noob who doesn't know how to shaman build. He saw my builds and didn't realize they were also possible with regular planks. He nerfed it because he just *thought* it was too powerful compared to flight and spawn radius when in fact it's just ON PAR with those skills.

I made this thread to help shamans realize how to maximize the use of clouds to bring it on par with those of flight and spawn radius, not to show that it's more powerful than flight or spawn radius... because it's not!

Thisisnobody a dit :

I did notice - but it's irrelevant. It doesn't take expertise to anchor a few clouds together. Any shaman who knows how to use anchors can do that. So any mediocre shaman could use them to solve maps that they would not be able to solve with planks.

Please provide an example of a map that shamans can solve with clouds, but not planks.

oh, and, did anybody notice that the maxxed stuff is op as well, not just the clouds

Seeteegee, maybe you should read what Iluhchez wrote in reply to your post on the announcement thread: Topic-332330

He has some very good points there (especially the "clouds give free stabilization" part). But of course, you won't listen, just as you keep ignoring my arguments...

I don't know if you guys are serious, but infinite clouds were insanely OP.

wings and the spawn rage are quite op too

Sunflowrcake a dit :

wings and the spawn rage are quite op too

off topic dayumm, butt whats op?

Jsilv a dit :

off topic dayumm, butt whats op?

Overpowered.

Thisisnobody a dit :

Seeteegee, maybe you should read what Iluhchez wrote in reply to your post on the announcement thread: Topic-332330

Thanks, I replied to all his points.

Thisisnobody a dit :

He has some very good points there (especially the "clouds give free stabilization" part). But of course, you won't listen, just as you keep ignoring my arguments...

Yeah, talk about not listening to arguments... The stabilization is *NOT*, I repeat, *NOT* free. It comes with skilled placement and planning. It's not a "free saves" kind of power, so no, it doesn't break the game.

If I provided maps that can be easily solved with wings + teleport + move spawn, but not clouds, would that be enough?

Aren't wings like outrageously overpowered?

Jsilv a dit :

Aren't wings like outrageously overpowered?

You can't do that much with them imho

spam up = oh look you're flying
imo everything was pretty equal

Aleeeeeh a dit :

You can't do that much with them imho

When combined with teleport and move-spawning, you can stabilize builds without really standing on anything. Sounds powerful to me. I swear I would have made you screenshots if only I didn't fail so hard at platforming.

But uh, I'll provide maps that can be easily solved with teleport + wings + move spawn, but would be difficult even with infinite cloud. Would that be enough to make my argument (that clouds are not overpowered) more valid?

all the skills are somewhat op so the clouds kinda had no right to be removed
plus with the totem glitch you can have like up to 20 fucking sheep in your totem and thats real op
clouds kinda had no right to be removed

Wings should be changed as well. For example the last skill of the mechanician tree is "Eagle eye" and it increases your spawn range with 30%. With wings you can spawn pretty much wherever you want except if you are stuck in a cage which is pretty much rare nowadays.

Even if you're stuck in a cage with wind master = you can teleport out or just run out of the cage using projection.