#Divinity Map Submissions

Buoyancy force should not be encouraged because it is never completely vertically stable. As we add weight, it sinks. A few maps that use this concept is in the rotation because based on what we've seen from the submission, it is a concept many people wish to try! For concepts that map makers love but may not best fit divinity, I believe only the best few maps should stay.

#602

Jrchama a dit :
Hello,

Thanks for a new review of my map (@7340965) I have already edited some minor errors, with the information about blur that is kinda messing with visual of the chocolate ground where shaman stands, and the chocolate ground under mice, already were properly correct, but I have done a new update on it.
Now about it being "generic", I don't agree about this, seems more like a tattered excuse, because as u can see with Vintage's maps, mostly of them is "generic" (not blaming that his/her map is bad, or being against/attacking).
About long bridge, isn't that is how shaman will have to lead with this? Make it properly stable and secured (I have two examples, of how I could make it properly stable and secured: as plankdiv and as no restrict) these 2 building have one thing in common do a support under the ground and you can make ur build more stable for ur "long bridge", and u have other maps that have the same "concept" of mine map that dont have a "points of support" at map and shaman have to lead with this to make it properly secured (some examples 6730701, 6737909) still have some of more maps but not going fill a big list here, since this is not the point.
So in my conclusion and as I can see with the 2 reasons, in my sincerely opinion it were a tattered excuse except the last reason its ok, since I could fix.

Thank you.

Thanks for the fast fix! Each of the points are relatively minor. Without all 3, this map fits the rotation. Readded!

I would like to further explain "generic" and "point of support".

- Generic: this criterion is applied more harshly the higher the diff. For low diff map, it is not as possible to balance the level of difficulty and creativity. As a result, visually appealing low diff maps, are likely to be accepted.

There are two reasons high diff maps require less generic maps. Firstly, the maps are made for more experienced players. More experienced players are more likely to find maps generic. Secondly, we expect map makers to be more creative. The maps being hard should be the result of creativity. Being hard itself should not be the goal. Just as an example, we can make a bc map with 20 20px ta. It is hard, but there is no creativity in that map.

- Points of support: for this one, unfortunately, I was probably unclear as to what I meant. By points of support, I meant features of the map that allow shaman to stabilize the build. Not the build itself, but parts of the maps. Maps with too few points of support are not encouraged because builds tend to be unstable.

As indicated by the red rectangles in the screenshots, your map has 1 point of support. The 2 examples you gave me each has 2.
Your map: https://imgur.com/a/uRplhr1
6737909: https://imgur.com/a/buO0H8W
6730701: https://imgur.com/a/ZZvIKfK

However, I do not believe builds on your map are unstable enough that this reason by itself warrants removal.

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#603

Can you point out the flaws in my map since the argument for «wanting to try it out» is not valid considering it have added a few maps with the same concept in the after time. I believe adding maps similar to that idea in the after time wouldn’t be considered testing. I agree on only maps that are well made should be added, therefore I want you to point out specifically the flaws in my maps. One of them, as I already mentioned, has a solution which aren’t based on buoyancy force.
If I for example move one of the top grounds more to the left so it wont be able to use buoyancy force, is it then accepted? 7396085

#604

Amelizz a dit :
Can you point out the flaws in my map since the argument for «wanting to try it out» is not valid considering it have added a few maps with the same concept in the after time. I believe adding maps similar to that idea in the after time wouldn’t be considered testing. I agree on only maps that are well made should be added, therefore I want you to point out specifically the flaws in my maps. One of them, as I already mentioned, has a solution which aren’t based on buoyancy force.
If I for example move one of the top grounds more to the left so it wont be able to use buoyancy force, is it then accepted? 7396085

The problem we have right now is that contrary to the intended solu, buoyancy force solu is easier to do: https://imgur.com/a/M3cb2DS

I assume that the intended solu looks something like this: https://imgur.com/a/qlb84Gx

To improve this map I have 2 suggestions (with Yinjackson's help):
1. Spawn shaman away from mice (so that it is more obvious that we want the shaman to be ballooned to make the base, and mice do not interfere)
2. Instead of 2 thin grounds, make a tilted large ground so that the buoyancy force base cannot be used (see screenshot as an example https://imgur.com/a/1ay8Uym)

#605

Even if the buoyancy force is easier than the intended solution, I believe that a map with more than one solution is better. The requirements for making maps in divinity is not to be a mono-solution map. You can do the intended solution I had in mind in different ways, however, taking away a completely different possible base would make it worse. Would it not?
I agree that i could move the shaman away from the mice, to easier guide the shaman to use the intended base I had in mind. This i will apply to my map. However, with the ice ground you came up with, it would not be able to support the build further out, plus, it would take away more solutions for building it. In the previous message I suggested to move the thin ground that are all to the left, even further to the left, so the buoyancy force would not be easily acquired.

Your solution to my map using buoyancy force is similar to this map 6894757 which also is a difficulty 6 map that has been accepted. Therefore I dont believe that the base you did is easier than my intended one, considering my map also was difficulty 6. I do believe however, that other 6894757 bases such as this https://imgur.com/a/pGhPCT2 would be tempting to try.Then again, I dont see the problem about using more than one solution than my intended one. It is not like the solution i had in mind for the map should be the main solution. Is it? I think its great that different people solve the maps in a new way, but if it causes too much trouble, making the shaman too much tempted to try other bases than my intended one, i could move the left wall further away. Since it was intentionally placed there to support the build. But as I mentioned earlier in this text, the first ice ground close to the hole is similar to another difficulty 6 map, and can therefore not be seen a a easier solution.

Is it accepted if I make the shaman spawn by itself, plus move the left top ground more to the left, as it function for support?

#606

No map with buoyancy force base will be accepted unless it is better than the ones in rotation. Breaking the main concept of the map, especially a high diff map, is not acceptable either.

#607

Ater a dit :
No map with buoyancy force base will be accepted unless it is better than the ones in rotation. Breaking the main concept of the map, especially a high diff map, is not acceptable either.

Accidentally replied using alt....

#608

If i make a ice roof like in your example, balloon base on the roof would be possible. Plus nothing to stabilize the build with. What is the problem with a map having more solutions? The main concept is not broken since it would be just as difficult, or easier to make the intended base I had in mind. What about this map for example, i believe the intended solution was to canon the build to the right, by using a balloon base. However, most of the time I have seen people force the ground instead. Force is not the intended solution and should not be encourage right? 4372606.

There is also many shaman body build in rotation, more than there are buoyance force bases. Personally, I believe some of them is not better than the old ones, but they still got accepted.

#609

Why buoyancy is a problem ? In my opinion, it is a very nice concept that we should not reject. I do not know why it would be rejected just because it is not very vertically stable, it is the shaman's job to make it stable and it is 100 % possible to make a great and stable base, adding weight is not the excuse. Plus divinity becomes boring since there are not a lot of new maps, and I agree with the fact that, you want to keep the best maps, but sometimes, nice maps with a very interesting concept are rejected for nothing.

#610

@7553249

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#611

Ok but- what the heck is buoyancy ?

#612

Sourisgogo a dit :
Why buoyancy is a problem ? In my opinion, it is a very nice concept that we should not reject. I do not know why it would be rejected just because it is not very vertically stable, it is the shaman's job to make it stable and it is 100 % possible to make a great and stable base, adding weight is not the excuse. Plus divinity becomes boring since there are not a lot of new maps, and I agree with the fact that, you want to keep the best maps, but sometimes, nice maps with a very interesting concept are rejected for nothing.

Gepardziu a dit :
Ok but- what the heck is buoyancy ?

Under the No-Balloon section Gekkeiju has a great explanation of what is and what is not buoyancy force based use of balloon. The problem of buoyancy force in simple terms is that shaman cannot make it stable, it always sinks.

I'm happy to further explain what is and what is not buoyancy force if Gekkeiju's post is not clear enough.

https://atelier801.com/topic?f=6&t=819853&p=2#m32

#613

Amelizz a dit :
If i make a ice roof like in your example, balloon base on the roof would be possible. Plus nothing to stabilize the build with. What is the problem with a map having more solutions? The main concept is not broken since it would be just as difficult, or easier to make the intended base I had in mind. What about this map for example, i believe the intended solution was to canon the build to the right, by using a balloon base. However, most of the time I have seen people force the ground instead. Force is not the intended solution and should not be encourage right? 4372606.

There is also many shaman body build in rotation, more than there are buoyance force bases. Personally, I believe some of them is not better than the old ones, but they still got accepted.

The swing solu is one of the intended solus. Using force does not break the concept.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention! The central concept of your map (balloon the shaman to make a base that requires fitting) allows the use of buoyancy force. Unfortunately in this case, I do not believe this particular map of yours can be fix.

#614

I would not see it as buoyancy force to use balloon on yourself since the balloon is no longer needed after the base has been made. I tend to just canon the balloon away from the build. A buoyancy force is when a build is floating in the air solely supported by balloons. Also if it is not possible making a stable base i would understand the map being rejected, however, the base can be stable in this case.

Lets end this discussion here since it wont go any further.

#615

@6581603
@5733084
@6970905

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#616

@7581582
@7579745
@7565969
@7325653 - changed to P22
@7584378

Note: I changed all the maps. Radical changes.

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#617

@7567114

#618

That map is IMPOSSIBLE for shamans with a small screen @6730731

#619

Blackout a dit :
That map is IMPOSSIBLE for shamans with a small screen @6730731

if you look here, i've given you an easy base you can do without having to use the offscreen to build
it's a pretty shit recording, but it can be easily done (also almost lagproof, i had 500 ping when recording that)
maybe use that as reference or work out a better solution with your friends or coshamans. there are some pretty amazing builds out there (most are better than mine), so just ask around and people will help you

also just so you know, i was working against the screen recording time limit, so you can take your time doing that base yourself xd

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#620

Coralbee a dit :
Blackout a dit :
That map is IMPOSSIBLE for shamans with a small screen @6730731

if you look here, i've given you an easy base you can do without having to use the offscreen to build
it's a pretty shit recording, but it can be easily done (also almost lagproof, i had 500 ping when recording that)
maybe use that as reference or work out a better solution with your friends or coshamans. there are some pretty amazing builds out there (most are better than mine), so just ask around and people will help you

also just so you know, i was working against the screen recording time limit, so you can take your time doing that base yourself xd

Thank u so much, Coralbee <3

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