Remove big plank and restorative from divine mode

Hm... how do you do that? Interesting...

Tomdizzy a dit :
sabzra a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
Chocojell a dit :
The divinity module doesn't offer any skills from the skill tree, this makes the nature of the map harder to do.

Since I am always at vanilla1, where most of the time there are 30 + mice, will this build be stable even with all the weight? Sometimes, undoubtedly, it will collapse.

I feel the need to ask, the build is stable although, did you manage to create the build in under 2-3 minutes?
As no one can tell in that picture.
Time Left: 00:00

Plus, I see it is only you in the picture, and no other mice. Try recreating a build like that with over 10 mice in the room and see if you can build it in less than 2-3 minutes and see if it is still stable.

Time starts at 0:00 in divinity, i will set the time to 2:30 and shaman it with skills, and again at 2:00 without skills. The amount of mice does not matter, I build always in a manner that mice cannot interfere with the build. The only exceptions to this are some difficulty 7 maps in divinity which require a small level of mouse cooperation. These maps are insanely harder than normal maps, so they shouldn't matter.

With extra time, fast summon:

With all skills disabled:

On the no skills one, I actually messed up a couple times and still had 40 seconds left.

I see it is possible, yet, not everyone builds in Divinity, Utility, or Cheesefarming which often contains only 2-8 mice. And when Cheesefarming, all the sham has to do is tell the person/people they are CF with to do what they want, and they often listen considering Cheesefarming is mainly with Friends. Most people prefer to be in larger rooms, mainly ranging around 10-50 mice in a room with strangers that often never do what the sham says.

If its proven (more than once) that its possible to build a stable build in less than 3 minutes in a full room (10+ mice) without using Big Plank and Restorative, then I might change the way I feel about removing those 2 powers in Divine.

#103

< Nice new pfp
But, what if the person is new to divine?
I know hard mode is easy. I've played it on a friends account.
I tried to build divine once and everything fell apart so

#104

elite4woolfy a dit :
< Nice new pfp
But, what if the person is new to divine?
I know hard mode is easy. I've played it on a friends account.
I tried to build divine once and everything fell apart so

If they're new then they need to learn. Should the mode also be watered down so that an infant can use it?

#105

Tomdizzy a dit :
If they're new then they need to learn. Should the mode also be watered down so that an infant can use it?

I have a feeling you;re saying "infant" as in me
i dont like it

#106

elite4woolfy a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
If they're new then they need to learn. Should the mode also be watered down so that an infant can use it?

I have a feeling you;re saying "infant" as in me
i dont like it

You were implying that a new shaman should be able to use divine mode right off the bat. I then used infant as a hyperbole. I in no way targeted you.

#107

I wasn't really implying new people should know how to divine- quite the opposite
I meant new people dont know how to divine. not should.

#108

sabzra a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
sabzra a dit :
Tomdizzy a dit :
Chocojell a dit :
The divinity module doesn't offer any skills from the skill tree, this makes the nature of the map harder to do.

Since I am always at vanilla1, where most of the time there are 30 + mice, will this build be stable even with all the weight? Sometimes, undoubtedly, it will collapse.

I feel the need to ask, the build is stable although, did you manage to create the build in under 2-3 minutes?
As no one can tell in that picture.
Time Left: 00:00

Plus, I see it is only you in the picture, and no other mice. Try recreating a build like that with over 10 mice in the room and see if you can build it in less than 2-3 minutes and see if it is still stable.

Time starts at 0:00 in divinity, i will set the time to 2:30 and shaman it with skills, and again at 2:00 without skills. The amount of mice does not matter, I build always in a manner that mice cannot interfere with the build. The only exceptions to this are some difficulty 7 maps in divinity which require a small level of mouse cooperation. These maps are insanely harder than normal maps, so they shouldn't matter.

With extra time, fast summon:

With all skills disabled:

On the no skills one, I actually messed up a couple times and still had 40 seconds left.

I see it is possible, yet, not everyone builds in Divinity, Utility, or Cheesefarming which often contains only 2-8 mice. And when Cheesefarming, all the sham has to do is tell the person/people they are CF with to do what they want, and they often listen considering Cheesefarming is mainly with Friends. Most people prefer to be in larger rooms, mainly ranging around 10-50 mice in a room with strangers that often never do what the sham says.

If its proven (more than once) that its possible to build a stable build in less than 3 minutes in a full room (10+ mice) without using Big Plank and Restorative, then I might change the way I feel about removing those 2 powers in Divine.

I originally was going to record footage from my shaman turn in vanilla1, however I didn't feel like waiting for my turn knowing all too well that I would probably get some dumb map like 33. Instead I will explain what I mean when I say that I shaman in a manner so that the amount of mice in the room seriously does not matter.

Take for example this map:

I start off by building this for map 25. I then use a ballooned cannon to do this:

There could be 200 mice in this room, and this solution would still work as long as you added an appropriate number of anvils afterwards.

#109

/no support

Honestly at this point, I'd rather see a new shaman mode altogether that disables most skills. Removing big planks and restoratives wouldn't accomplish very much; players can still use balloons, anvils, arrows and spiderwebs to create simple map solutions in the absence of rotation-fixing duct tape.

Dernière modification le

#110

elite4woolfy a dit :
I wasn't really implying new people should know how to divine- quite the opposite
I meant new people dont know how to divine. not should.

yes, thats the entire point of divine mode
if a player with no prior experience building could farm 20 divine saves per map it wouldnt be called "divine mode", or be fun at all
@prime: uhh whats wrong with balloons and anvils again??

#111

Im not sure but, did you ever think about how if you were in a vanilla room, there are plenty of mice out there to ruin your build before it is even finished? I'm just saying, sometimes there are exceptions, no one is able to build perfectly every time, and when someone throws something that make your build glitch, it's basically over.

#112

Divine mode is supposed to be more difficult than hard mode. I saw a few shamans yesterday in normal mode using these two skills and it was just a quick, add 3 planks and duct tape and the map was complete. People using these skills on divine mode aren't actually experiencing the real divine mode, but a fake divine mode where this is no challenge whatsoever and a bunch of easy saves. I choose not to use those two skills because building as a shaman is my favorite part of the game.

#113

/halfsupport

#114

Chocojell a dit :
Im not sure but, did you ever think about how if you were in a vanilla room, there are plenty of mice out there to ruin your build before it is even finished? I'm just saying, sometimes there are exceptions, no one is able to build perfectly every time, and when someone throws something that make your build glitch, it's basically over.

this has happened plenty of times and unfortunately if a mouse with 80 chickens wants to screw you up, he will. again, if it comes to the point where a specific skill is deemed near mandatory, that enough is already proof that it's overpowered.

e: Do note I am not confined to only divinity. The reason I am aware of the problems I look to address is because I go out into normal rooms and witness them.

Dernière modification le

#115

/SUPPORT

let me talk about shaman building in the aspect of physics. one of the fundamentals which divides divine mode from normal mode is limitation of degrees of freedom of shaman objects. On the 2D screen, shaman objects naturally have 3 degrees of freedom: 2 for translations and one for rotation. building a bridge means limiting degrees of freedom of the shaman objects to 0. it's much easier for normal mode to do that than for divine mode. One red anchor limits translational motion and one more red anchor limits rotation and, then degree of freedom of the planks is absolutely 0. when adding a new plank to the foundation, there is no need to worry about its degrees of freedom; just connect it with a red/yellow anchor and it's fixed. (yellow anchors have a little elasticity in stopping rotation but it's little enough to be ignored.)
when it comes to divine mode even making a fixed foundation is hard. and whenever we try to add a new plank to extend a bridge we need to think how we can limit degrees of freedom of it, especially freedom of rotation because one green anchor limits degree of freedom of translations but not rotation. (when you connect a plank to a fixed foundation with a green anchor, the plank is vertically and horizontally fixed but it still can rotates)
again, building = limiting the 3 degrees of freedom to 0 and, for normal/hard mode, it's not hard at all because the red/yellow anchors themselves have that function but in divine mode, green anchors just limit 2/3 of freedom so we need to do the rest 1/3 by ourselves.
Restorative obviously ruins this challenge, the most important nature of divine mode.
big plank(= two planks joint tightly by yellow anchors) too.
it's true that arrow-anchoring also removes the challenge.

#116

gekkeiju a dit :
snip

It's actually so interesting to hear this put into words. As I never actually took physics classes of any kind i'm not able to give an explanation like this.

We did some testing and it turns out the big plank is actually one solid piece, not multiple planks conjoined like the S object.

#117

/support

Dernière modification le

#118

/half support
Get rid of the bandages, but I think the planks are fine

#119

/support
Honestly this is a good idea but i'd probably be called a noob lol

#120

Divine is too easy with this plank
/Support

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