Chandara a dit :

thats almost exaclty wut i did ._.

also for Master mode when u have a bloon and push v its the same as c wut u gonna do about that not have any connecters for bloons or just leave it alone?

Balloons are fine as they sare. Technically anchored balloons rotate around the anchor, so they're just like V nails anyway.

Dazchipmunk a dit :

Lol /support, but I see some impossible room shaman moments. If it was a shaman 10 difficulty map, and one where v nails would only work, since ur trapped, and you cant use arrow anchors to stable the V anchors, then I see some hard work xD

Room shaman has a ton of maps impossible even on hardmode. I wouldn't recommend anything but easy mode in that room; it's made to challenge shamans beyond limitations.

/Support, seems fun c:

Fxie a dit :

Room shaman has a ton of maps impossible even on hardmode. I wouldn't recommend anything but easy mode in that room; it's made to challenge shamans beyond limitations.

I haven't seen any room shaman map that's impossible on hard mode, actually there are people using it with successes.

Anyway, whole idea seems fun, I've thought of it myself quite a few times too.
Requirements are way too high, though, stats don't really matter when it comes to shamming. 10k hm saves would just prevent most people from unlocking this.

Typenick a dit :

I haven't seen any room shaman map that's impossible on hard mode, actually there are people using it with successes.

Anyway, whole idea seems fun, I've thought of it myself quite a few times too.
Requirements are way too high, though, stats don't really matter when it comes to shamming. 10k hm saves would just prevent most people from unlocking this.

There are some maps in there last I used to visit that required use of the B glitch to complete and some caged shaman maps that are just too much work for hardmode in the alotted time. I don't know how much different the map rotation in that room is now though.

Also the requirements are there for two reasons:
1. In most cases, stats show experience. You get 10K HM saves, you must have shamaned a LOT, and that's a MUST to use this mode. This requirement makes sense in normal rooms; it's understandable that you /room shaman pros don't have as many hardmode saves while still being excellent shamans but that's because of the room.
2. This gives players something to work towards. Collecting cheese unlocks you shop items. What does shamming unlock? A few titles -- crappy ones for hardmode -- and nothing more. This prerequisite for master mode would change that.

Fxie a dit :

There are some maps in there last I used to visit that required use of the B glitch to complete and some caged shaman maps that are just too much work for hardmode in the alotted time. I don't know how much different the map rotation in that room is now though.

Also the requirements are there for two reasons:
1. In most cases, stats show experience. You get 10K HM saves, you must have shamaned a LOT, and that's a MUST to use this mode. This requirement makes sense in normal rooms; it's understandable that you /room shaman pros don't have as many hardmode saves while still being excellent shamans but that's because of the room.
2. This gives players something to work towards. Collecting cheese unlocks you shop items. What does shamming unlock? A few titles -- crappy ones for hardmode -- and nothing more. This prerequisite for master mode would change that.

idk why the heck its 10x the amount of saves needed for HM. Make 5000-6000 most some say. Plus it took me 1-2 years to get where i am XD i talk more than do.

Fxie a dit :

There are some maps in there last I used to visit that required use of the B glitch to complete and some caged shaman maps that are just too much work for hardmode in the alotted time. I don't know how much different the map rotation in that room is now though.

Also the requirements are there for two reasons:
1. In most cases, stats show experience. You get 10K HM saves, you must have shamaned a LOT, and that's a MUST to use this mode. This requirement makes sense in normal rooms; it's understandable that you /room shaman pros don't have as many hardmode saves while still being excellent shamans but that's because of the room.

No map requires the B glitch; you don't understand all game mechanics. You can always build some planks to 0,0 and arrow anchor it to the small grounds that are already glitched there to make the no B in the first place.
The biggest problem on maps where you seemingly lack time is that you actually spend most of your time doing nothing, thinking about what to build next or waiting for something to stabilize. All shaman maps are possible with hardmode.

I don't like stat requirements in general, but I don't really care either. I'll build whatever I please in my normal-dull-boring-mode, whether it be a standard build, hardmode, only v, no anchors, only balloon/anvil or whatever.

Letsshamhard and me showing you that nothing is impossible (except building with only runes, screw that)

Gogoninja a dit :

No map requires the B glitch; you don't understand all game mechanics. You can always build some planks to 0,0 and arrow anchor it to the small grounds that are already glitched there to make the no B in the first place.
The biggest problem on maps where you seemingly lack time is that you actually spend most of your time doing nothing, thinking about what to build next or waiting for something to stabilize. All shaman maps are possible with hardmode.

I don't like stat requirements in general, but I don't really care either. I'll build whatever I please in my normal-dull-boring-mode, whether it be a standard build, hardmode, only v, no anchors, only balloon/anvil or whatever.

Letsshamhard and me showing you that nothing is impossible (except building with only runes, screw that)

I must've missed something then because I've seen at least 2 maps where the build inevitably blocked the hole either on its own or because of a part of the map and the B glitch was used to make it possible to get back. I'm not going to argue whether this was necessary or not because I really don't remember the whole thing though.

Once again, the stat requirements apply to normal players for the same 2 reasons: most players who play normal rotation either use easy mode because hard mode is too hard or use hard mode but don't know too much about V (those who depend heavily on totems). We don't want everyone using master mode with no clue how; there's already a small problem with people using hard mode who don't know how and only V is far harder than hm. And then the second reason is so that saves can lead up to something more significant than titles. Giving you something to unlock. 90% of TFM loves unlockables.


Also that's an interesting and nicely made build for that map by Letsshamhard. There are two thoughts I had, though: 1. with negative gravity and cheese I don't think mice would be able to scale the build back down to the hole on the right side, and 2. time. Which is really the biggest reason for this suggestion as it allows complex builds such as this to be done more securely without running out.

And one more thing: I noticed you use boxes to connect V boards, but with more mice on it the board on top will phase through the one under it. I suggest putting a short board at 90 degrees at the end of the first board then connecting the long board on top for definite support (similar to my map 25 build).

I didn't see, are B nails allowed?

Crackyamtwo a dit :

I didn't see, are B nails allowed?

No B anchors are not allowed in master mode as your totem gets replaced with "1" yellow nail. Please see below for the OP

Fxie a dit :

This is a suggestion that I truly do not expect to be considered, however it would be quite fun.

Basically it's a harder difficulty than "hard mode" for shamans. Let's face it, hard mode gets easy. Fast. You have a red nail if you need it and yellow nails keep everything pretty stable without having to build actual support for most lengths, and then even when you're building across the map you can just use bridge support (piers & archs) to stabilize it.

What more can you possibly take away? I'm glad you asked.

"Master mode" would be for geeks who have full understanding of shaman physics and how builds work. It would be HARD, even for experienced players. The following restrictions would be placed on this mode:
• No yellow anchors
• No arrow anchors - this makes stability too easy for V solutions
• Replace spirit/totem with a single yellow nail (kinda like how totems are used for 1 red nail)

What would be the benefits of using master mode?
• A more awesome shaman appearance
• Spawn objects twice as fast (to promote speed building for necessary complex structures)
• These saves add to HM saves (becomes HM/MM saves)
• Double save points in P4 maps (2 points per save) - only P4 to prevent easy map abuse

What would be the prerequisites for using master mode?
• 10,000 HM saves
• 1,000 Cheese personally gathered (to promote faster & better building without +20s/anti-newb solutions)

anyways i support this ^^ this will give me an excuse to start practising my hard mode again and hopefully this master mode since nowadays i just use easy mode ^^'

Fxie a dit :

I must've missed something then because I've seen at least 2 maps where the build inevitably blocked the hole either on its own or because of a part of the map and the B glitch was used to make it possible to get back. I'm not going to argue whether this was necessary or not because I really don't remember the whole thing though.

This is what I meant:


I pointed an arrow, but if you're hardcore about not using arrow anchors, any object with a v anchor will work fine.

Fxie a dit :

Also that's an interesting and nicely made build for that map by Letsshamhard. There are two thoughts I had, though: 1. with negative gravity and cheese I don't think mice would be able to scale the build back down to the hole on the right side, and 2. time. Which is really the biggest reason for this suggestion as it allows complex builds such as this to be done more securely without running out.

By 'scaling the build back down to the hole' I assume you mean running back. It is possible for mice to run back, and the build can be finished with ~30 seconds left, plenty of time for mice to run.
If you halved the spawn time, you could probably just fill every map completely with balloons (some not ghosted) for easy saves.

Fxie a dit :

And one more thing: I noticed you use boxes to connect V boards, but with more mice on it the board on top will phase through the one under it. I suggest putting a short board at 90 degrees at the end of the first board then connecting the long board on top for definite support (similar to my map 25 build).

Yes well no. Balloon + anvil + balloon is really really steady.

Also finished two of your attempts at maps, without a 'totem'.

XD Gonjj did it but for the mortal combat map Gonjj did u test it by putting weight on it cause it looks like its gonna fall and from wear u r how would u get back u? there is no item to climb to go back up to hole u cant jump that hi or noobs dunno how to wj and die there :P

Gogoninja a dit :

This is what I meant:

I pointed an arrow, but if you're hardcore about not using arrow anchors, any object with a v anchor will work fine.

I hadn't really thought of connecting something to the block to glitch it, but I haven't exactly played a no-B map more than twice in my life either.

Gogoninja a dit :

By 'scaling the build back down to the hole' I assume you mean running back. It is possible for mice to run back, and the build can be finished with ~30 seconds left, plenty of time for mice to run.
If you halved the spawn time, you could probably just fill every map completely with balloons (some not ghosted) for easy saves.

Not really. Perhaps in some maps with enclosed spaces like that but not in most maps by far, and regardless that'd be no bigger problem than people who just balloon anyone as-is. With more mice it's literally impossible to do that though as solid balloons do pop under weight of mice.

Gogoninja a dit :

Yes well no. Balloon + anvil + balloon is really really steady.

Also finished two of your attempts at maps, without a 'totem'.

Still, I find it very efficient without the need for spawning 3 more objects to just use a short board at 90 degrees as it will hardly ever be phased; and then even with your bloonanvilbloon support more mice will inevitably weigh the board down through the other, so you could still use short boards instead for further reinforcement.

And I try to use the "totem" just to demonstrate it since this is a discussion about the suggestion which includes it, after all. That is a very interesting build for Nickeldelta's map, though.

Support, so so much support. In Vanilla I find myself constantly using a no red anchor totem because it's just painfully easy.

The 1 yellow anchor as the 'totem' is an interesting idea. Because you still have your stability point as such but it is far more complex to create.

So to put it simply, I would love for this to be considered, and the requirements sound fair. Just going to need to reach them on this new account e.X Great post!

Support, never use anything but a b anchor and c anchors when building.

Fxie a dit :

I hadn't really thought of connecting something to the block to glitch it, but I haven't exactly played a no-B map more than twice in my life either.


Not really. Perhaps in some maps with enclosed spaces like that but not in most maps by far, and regardless that'd be no bigger problem than people who just balloon anyone as-is. With more mice it's literally impossible to do that though as solid balloons do pop under weight of mice.


Still, I find it very efficient without the need for spawning 3 more objects to just use a short board at 90 degrees as it will hardly ever be phased; and then even with your bloonanvilbloon support more mice will inevitably weigh the board down through the other, so you could still use short boards instead for further reinforcement.

And I try to use the "totem" just to demonstrate it since this is a discussion about the suggestion which includes it, after all. That is a very interesting build for Nickeldelta's map, though.

tis it is very hard to do

*bumps* :/

I've thought of another map that might be very tricky to do - Map 27. I've never found a way to make this stable even on regular hardmode (no totem, that is), there's just no anchorage point. Had anyone found any way to beat this on Master Mode? Linking to the wiki page for confirmation of what map it is.
http://transformicewiki.com/index.php/Map27

Support! Even though i'm a newb at Hard Mode...

Tyriella a dit :

I've thought of another map that might be very tricky to do - Map 27. I've never found a way to make this stable even on regular hardmode (no totem, that is), there's just no anchorage point. Had anyone found any way to beat this on Master Mode? Linking to the wiki page for confirmation of what map it is.
http://transformicewiki.com/index.php/Map27

this map i think its not ment for shaman >.> its dynamic ground and the mice u work with is there faoult if they mess up so its there game....

*bump* ._.