Oh that kind of trick does exist? My bad I didn't know that...

But it's rather an advanced usage of [9.1], which it can be used to hit something.

Does Solfn missed this trick or something since it's very similar?

Explain. It does sound a bit like [9.1], but hitting something? I would be interested to know if you figured something out like that.

Just look at this picture below:



As you can see, the bullets are shot straight in a certains directions.
But there is no way to shot to only one direction, it's always shot to at least 2 directions.

+laurent a dit :

Just look at this picture below:



As you can see, the bullets are shot straight in a certains directions.
But there is no way to shot to only one direction, it's always shot to at least 2 directions.

I don't understand how this explains [9.1] in advanced usage where you actually hit something. From what I interpreted out of this I can only see that you said "There's is no way to shoot through the tunnel in one direction. It always has to be 2 directions; the direction from your bullets being shot from the gun, and the direction of your opponent's bullets being shot from their gun." Ex) You're shooting left, but the opponent can also shoot right meaning there is a two way access.

But that doesn't explain how you hit something with [9.1]...
I'm a bit fumbled here.

In the [9.1], it's is possible to not hit anything when the cursor is put right in the cannon.

But if you move the cursor by some pixels to the right (considering the body character is directed to the right), It will shot at 0° and 45° or -45° (possible to do ±90° as well).

So in other words accuracy becomes 100% in those directions? (As in every bullet fired follows the exact same path?)

Fewfre a dit :

So in other words accuracy becomes 100% in those directions? (As in every bullet fired follows the exact same path?)

+laurent a dit :

..., It will shot at 0° and 45° or -45°...

It's rather around ~50% at the one you are aiming and ~50% for the other angle.

Yes I have heard of this. You have to hold the cursor right beside the sweetspot that would normally initiate [9.1].
So there's actually 8 different spots you can perform that piercing type bullet. (3x3 pixel square, center pixel is the sweetspot)
I've already tried to make it so that it fires in one direction only, but it will always choose two, and the direction it chooses is luck based.
I actually tried to do it with the SPAS-12 and had I succeeded I would have changed its gameplay indefinitely, creating a super SPAS.

Give it a go with a fast firing weapon and you'll see what I mean.
If you fired the gun to the left while doing [9.1], it would fire directly left and right (180 degrees)

Yes Fewfre, the bullets will travel in the exact same straight lines.
I actually mapped out the behaviour of the bullets around the sweetspot. I did this using a SPAS-12 (lowest accuracy in the game). Here are the results. They turn out to be exactly the same left and right.


You can actually see a little pattern emerging. The bullets seem to converge together the further out you go, defying the true accuracy of the weapon. The accuracy of a SPAS-12 is 30 degrees (are you sure this is correct, +Laurent??) to the horizontal, but we actually achieved 22.5 degrees at one point. (maybe I am wrong?? perhaps this is actually supposed to be 30 degrees or more?? It's more likely that I am wrong than +Laurent's measurement of the SPAS-12 accuracy, because I don't think the trick method can get any more accurate than the weapon itself)
You can actually pull further out from the sweetspot to narrow your shots the more accurate your gun is. Eventually at a point the game will stop you from making it any more accurate and just default back to the normal conditions.
There is a limit to where this actually might help. For example, the An-94 is more accurate than what you would get exploiting this trick. See picture below.

However technically the trick method is more accurate because it only uses one half of the range while the normal way uses both halves. Aiming it properly might be a little tricky.

I actually noted something a bit interesting. If the accuracy tends to get lower as you get closer to the sweetspot, then the sweetspot must be of infinite inaccuracy, even though it fires in a straight line. So infinite inaccuracy = infinite accuracy.
i.e. the game gets so confused about where it's supposed to be firing that it doesn't display a hitbox for the bullets, and just defaults to a straight line going to the right.

I rewrote this all in section [9.1] in a more organised manner, if this confuses you.

By the way Fewfre I decided to add your tactic from earlier in as [4.10] with full credit to you. =] thanks

I added a new section [2.3] that I'll provide images to explain later.

Also added section [5.11] which is one of only few of these advanced techniques to require a partner to perform.

solfn a dit :

... The accuracy of a SPAS-12 is 30 degrees (are you sure this is correct, +Laurent??) to the horizontal, but we actually achieved 22.5 degrees at one point. (maybe I am wrong?? perhaps this is actually supposed to be 30 degrees or more?? It's more likely that I am wrong than +Laurent's measurement of the SPAS-12 accuracy, because I don't think the trick method can get any more accurate than the weapon itself)...

There is no way I said it was 30°. Could you quote the message where I said that?

If you look in this page of the wikia, it's said 60° as well.

EDIT:
@Solfn below
I don't really get what is the problem with the SPAS 12.

I halved it, because the trick is also halving the original range.
It's halved because the bullets go in 2 directions: One in the direction you're actually firing, and another deviating off to the side, which happens to come to half of the spread of the original weapon.
If you read that ignoring the red color, it says "30 degrees to the horizontal"

EDIT:
@+Laurent above
I'm probably the one that's wrong. If your measurement is correct then what should be on my chart is a 30 degree angle not a 22.5 degree angle. I didn't actually bother to measure these when I was charting them.

NEW TRICK [5.12].

oic c:

I've got so much work to do.. I'll update this entire thread. So many things will be patched.
There will be a 10th section called PATCHED. I'll include the patch date, and the former section.

The entire guide has been updated. Thanks for your patience.
The patched tricks were moved to section 10. [9.2] is partially patched: It's actually still possible, but way more tricky than before because of the update.
Here's my take on the new update, i.e. first reaction, just out of interest.

Solfn I have just noticed something I call "spider descent" I would rather show it to you and have you explain it then me try to explain it so whisper me in game. I think it is mostly useful on a VIP map to get a peek at howmany enemies before engaging

I had a look at it. It's better to conj below your feet, because there are times when there are way too many enemies below and you might panic and screw up if you don't already have the cursor at your foot. It does, however, look surprisingly like a spider.

EDIT: The guide now has navigation, so it doesn't take up so much page space. I also added section [1.0] which is an extremely important fundamental in this game, so check it out!!

Thanks for adding tabs ^^ And good idea adding the weapon statistics to the library.

I read the entire thing and so far it's been helpful to me. I'm sure it will really start to pay off once I master most of these techniques.

It's so much faster to reach the other side of the map with CJS, it's also fun and since you're moving so fast you can take enemies by surprise (with the SPAS in my case, which is specially good for this purpose).

Sadly, so far they've been accusing me of hacking for most of the tricks I've been trying, Although the people who do so would call me hacker for simply killing them so it's not something I can avoid (or maybe I could avoid it to some extent by playing in any server other than mine).

Hinakagiyama a dit :

I read the entire thing and so far it's been helpful to me. I'm sure it will really start to pay off once I master most of these techniques.

It's so much faster to reach the other side of the map with CJS, it's also fun and since you're moving so fast you can take enemies by surprise (with the SPAS in my case, which is specially good for this purpose).

Sadly, so far they've been accusing me of hacking for most of the tricks I've been trying, Although the people who do so would call me hacker for simply killing them so it's not something I can avoid (or maybe I could avoid it to some extent by playing in any server other than mine).

Don't worry. I can relate to your experiences. But people will call you a hacker even if you are just simply better than them.
The whole point of being the VIP is to be completely prepared for everything that's coming at you. You can't just simply slack off at the beginning expecting that nobody is going to reach you that quickly. So it's their problem if you just come too fast for them to expect you.
Like I say at the beginning of this guide, you can show them this guide or even a video proving it's not a hack. I've got a collection of some videos for tricks that are confusing at first, but relatively easy to master. So you can show people these if you like.

Interesting,cookies for topic!

I appreciate cookies :D This game is honestly the most complicated out of all of atelier's games, and it's a pleasure to pass on this knowledge to others.

EDIT: For completion's sake I'm adding another technique which I guess will go in miscellaneous, it's more of a mechanic than a technique but it's still good to know.

NEW: SECTION 11. Also, I am going through the guide and replacing some of the images with gif animations.

yuss I'm in one of the animations :D

http://www172.lunapic.com/do-not-link-here-use-hosting-instead/141391484880552?3080246425