Disproportionately Harsh and Increasingly Frequent Moderation in EN |
Candycain « Citoyen » 1613861100000
| 39 | ||
I can't speak for other servers, but players in EN are beginning to notice increased moderation taking the form of muting and bans that is disproportionately harsh considering any given "transgression" in question. A subjective interpretation of the Transformice rules by Moderators, rules instituted by the admin team long ago, reveals these rules are clearly not enforced uniformly or fairly. As far as I know, the rules haven't changed for some time, so why are mutes/bans increasing for harmless banter when there are players who get away with serious rule-breaking. I'm happy to list anonymous examples of both if need be. On a personal, anecdotal note (though I'm aware of many examples among friends and strangers), I was banned for 72 hours for insulting someone who constantly harasses me. I won't get into the details as I already submitted a ban appeal via Staff Contact and this isn't the appropriate place for that, but my last mute from a while ago (and I've had very few in 10 years, probably no more than 4 or 5) was for 1 hour. I haven't received any response via Staff Contact and that isn't what this post is about, but I don't know if I've ever seen a 72 hour ban after a 1 hour mute for an insult - in my 10 years here. 10 years of loyal gameplay...I have donated hundreds and hundreds of dollars to this game (if not over a thousand) via fraises, which has contributed to Transformice staying afloat despite a steady decrease in overall contributions and in the player base. To be clear, I don't think I should receive any special treatment for donations, but this game relies on its consistent donators to stay afloat. I am hearing from friends of mine who have also played forever and donated a ton of money, also, who have quit permanently or are prepared to due to recent unnecessarily harsh moderation. Muting and banning people left and right for joking with friends, or even the occasional outlier disagreement with someone, isn't a sustainable business strategy for Transformice - or for any game. Spoiler alert: people continue to play games only when they're enjoying them, not when they stop talking in public chat because they feel they're constantly walking on eggshells. I am prepared to be another frequent donator to quit permanently over this unprecedented over-moderation to the point it's common knowledge that it impacts play for everyone, and the administrators won't be compelled to keep the game up when maintaining the servers becomes financially unsustainable for a steadily decreasing player base. This would be sad for me, because as I stated above more than once, I have been a loyal player since early 2011 - since this game was new. I want to see Transformice improve, not fail, and this new trend is concerning. If someone could contact me from the admin team, I would love to discuss this with you. I've worked in game development, as well as writing and developing rules and programs, and I'd be happy to provide my perspective on curbing this before it alienates too many frequent donators, a crucial segment of the Transformice family. I don't think I know better than you how to run Transformice and I would never be arrogant enough to say that; you've successfully run a wonderful game for years, but moderation is becoming out of control - and it may not yet be on your radar. If you haven't encountered this personally, that's wonderful, and I'm honestly happy for you! But if you have, I encourage you to write to the admin team via their Staff Contact section on Atelier 801 - or comment here, because not addressing it will only result in an increase in gameplay-affecting over-moderation: https://atelier801.com/topic?f=6&t=891384 I hope this posting won't be taken down, because that would further prove my point, and I'm sure my loyal support of this game won't be in question after everything I've said above about how much I love it, want it to succeed, and have personally contributed financially and otherwise to its success. Thanks, everyone! <3 |
Peanut_butter « Consul » 1613936400000
| 29 | ||
A year ago I totally would've agreed with you but now I feel they are actually improving and actively seeking out rulebreakers. The moderation has improved by a lot and that's one of the reasons I actually enjoy this game again. I don't have to deal with people sending me to the grave. I even wrote a post about the toxic moderation environment that was happening just about 7-8 months ago, but to me it seems like that's not even relevant anymore. They really did improve. As to why it's a 72 hour ban after a 1 hour mute, I guess it's pretty self-explanatory. I don't want to list insults but you know that there's a difference between insult and insult too. Telling someone their intelligence is low vs telling them to go . themselves are both insults. One is more serious than the other, although none should be said in the first place. You can't expect to be given the same sanctions for both insults. And you're only joking? Cool, do it in whispers. That way, moderators aren't going to look at your messages unless the other participant reports you. The thing about saying bad things in public is that you and your friend aren't the only ones seeing it. Most people are probably used to profanity and that language, but there still could be someone there who never heard of it or doesn't want to hear it. Therefore we should not encourage and teach others to bad language even if it's just a joke. Not even talking about how a joke is supposed to be funny, not degrading to others. If someone harrasses you, you have every right to report them, ask for a mod in whispers or on discord to deal with the case. Insulting back is not the answer. |
Sharpmuffinz « Citoyen » 1613948520000
| 1 | ||
While I do think Candycain deserved the mute, as if you want to argue/insult someone just do it in whispers and keep it out of public chat. I also think moderation has improved (at least the EN team) I feel like some things are sort of ignored. In my opinion, there are some fairly creepy people that play/ played the game that got away with a lot. I can think of a few players that are known to be creepy now or in the past that I feel is kind of dangerous letting them still play on a game that while has a large older playerbase, still is aimed towards kids. I understand that sometimes people can change but I also feel like if people are notoriously known on the entire server to be creepy there shouldnt be any reason they dont deserve a perma-ban. Maybe my thinking is being too strict, but in the past Ive known many people from this game that have had problems with creepy older players and I feel like the issue is sort of overlooked sometimes. |
Keerstens « Citoyen » 1613949060000
| 2 | ||
I agree with Candycain's statement. Over the course of my 5-ish years on Transformice, there have almost certainly been moments where I, and a few friends, have been joking around with each other (in main, because I feel as though you shouldn't always have to have a private chat to discuss things with friends) in a way that those who aren't in our friend group could possibly find quite offensive. A majority of the time, we are largely ignored by the moderation team but there have been times were everyone in the room could be joking together yet only on person has been banned and/or muted, even if they just joined the room and started to feel the vibe. Transformice.com mods are not at all that different from mods on any other website and they often allow themselves to be influenced by their friends and those they play with on a regular basis. The moderation in EN rooms does seem to be heavily biased. I have had a friend who has been playing Transformice almost as long as Candycain and he was continuously muted and banned by one specific mod, who actually stated to him "I cannot wait until you are permanently banned." Is that not wrong and is that not excessive use of power? He could be having a civil conversation with his friends or someone random in the room, yet he would be the one muted or banned for an excessive amount of time just because of who he was and how the mods assumed he would react. And much like Candycain, he has donated hundreds of dollars to this failing website yet he no longer plays anymore because who would want to continue coming and contributing to a website where they are continuously punished due to their perceived actions rather than their actual actions. Peanut_butter notes a significant change in moderation over the past year, but sad to say, I don't see that. I see the same slow response times when an actual threat is around, and I see the same people who should have been banned years ago still being allowed to play the game as if they've done nothing wrong. Of course, telling someone to ___ themselves is quite excessive, I think the jump from one hour mute to a 72 hour ban was itself quite excessive considering the stuff people are allowed to say on a daily basis and they remain unharmed. There needs to be more change within the moderation of EN rooms, and alienating your most loyal fanbase is not the way to keep Transformice afloat. |
Candycain « Citoyen » 1613949240000
| 2 | ||
Hey, Peanut_butter! I appreciate you commenting, but I understand you are a former moderator yourself. With that bias considered, I think my original post stands as is without the need of additional context. I actually think it strengthens my argument that former moderators feel compelled (or are being asked to) come to the defense of the moderation team on this. Best, Candycain |
2 | ||
i agree with Candycain's post i have been playing tfm for the last 10 years and usually there's alot of shady stuff being said in the chat and i think mods should do more work but from what i have seen they are exaggerating and they mute people for all the wrong reasons |
Peanut_butter « Consul » 1614003780000
| 3 | ||
Keerstens a dit : I totally get it and agree with you on how it's an excessive use of power. There were some moderators in the past who did this and I can't deny that. I also can't deny that there are still a few mods who could be doing this and it's disgusting. There are a lot of ways to seek help though - EN staff contact gives your case to 3 random moderators who might not even be close to each other, so all of them can develop a subjective point of view on your situation. If that doesn't work out, the contact page lets you write to the admins, however it's probably useless as they only deal with password and e-mail changes, so I suggest making a post like this one or directly contacting Melibellule through discord or any other platform. I find this post useful despite not agreeing 100% with everything, feedback is always welcome. Candycain a dit : I was never an in game moderator, I actually got denied because of bias inside the team and some lie that I hardly even know anything about, I didn't even get one chance to explain myself. I especially didn't get along with some EN staff very well. This could give me enough reason to hate on them and go against them, but it wouldn't be the reality I see right now. They have improved a lot and became stricter which I deem necessary in this game full of toxic players. From my sentinel experience (cause I was only a forum mod), I still remember some cases where players would put inappropriate images just to spite me and other staff members - then when we sanctioned them, they'd be the ones offended and justifying it that it's only a joke. Unfortunately, this happened more times than us actually giving out unjust sanctions. Because of this, I still believe that most people who try to appeal their bans, mutes saying it was unfair, it was actually very fair and needed, they just can't admit their mistakes. I still stand by what I said in the first comment, just whisper each other or create a /chat if there are more of you. You can insult and tell each other to flip off as much as you'd like to, but don't ruin the game for others who don't want to see that language in public. Other common reply to justify one's mute is that others who do the same aren't getting the mutes they deserve... I hate that, honestly I do, but there are simply not enough moderators and it's not their fault that there aren't any more people who are good for the position. For this, the admins definitely could develop a better filter system that automatically warns and mutes people. Even though it would cost a lot to go through words in 50 languages and somehow solve the issue of words meaning something else in some languages than in others, it would be worth it. I don't have any other ideas on how to improve this but letting people continue swearing and cussing at each other is definitely not the right solution. Dernière modification le 1614009780000 |
Candycain « Citoyen » 1614031020000
| 0 | ||
Peanut_butter a dit : You're absolutely right. Feedback is always welcome, and I appreciate you commenting - considering the alternative context you can provide as not having been a player only. You have the unique perspective as former moderator (in-game or not) to provide, and that should be represented. Keerstens a dit : Yes. 100% this. The moderation team doesn't consider context. Viewing the world in black and white is the death of reason, and the moderation team has applied that to their misguided disciplinary process in Transformice. Context matters. If you don't have enough information to make a determination regarding severity of a rule-breaking "infraction," don't blindly mute or ban someone. Gather more information. Not doing that is just lazy and you shouldn't be a moderator if you're unwilling to do the work or view muting/banning so casually that you throw them out left and right without context. Peanut_butter a dit : Well, I think this speaks for itself. |
1 | ||
lol.. mods mute for the stupidest reasons ever. but when someone uses the r slur multiple times? they don't care |
Mousechris « Censeur » 1614087540000
| 1 | ||
Camila_cabello a dit : thats not true, someone was calling themselves the R slur, then I told themselves not to call themselves that, the mods then gave me a warning for using "ableist slurs", now whenever a mod views my sanctions, they're going to think I was calling someone an ableist slur even though I was literally just telling someone not to call themselves the slur. I even asked the Mapcrew if that would effect say like an application, and they said given the context they didn't care, meaning the warning was literally just pointless and serves nothing but to cause confusion and make the moderation team think I was insulting someone when I objectively wasn't. I completely agree with Candy, the EN moderation team is letting social politics invade how they sanction, I even DM'd Matza about it all with several instances of it, and yet she still hasn't responded. The EN sentinel team started doing the same thing 4 years ago and now the forums are near dead, I can expect the same of the general game if this keeps up. |
Vendel « Citoyen » 1614092520000
| 1 | ||
i definitely agree with candycain, i have been muted/ banned at least 7-10 times just these past couple weeks, some of them were understandable, such as me saying a slur and getting banned even though i was a part of the community, which i understand isn't provable, but still shouldn't lead to a a day long ban, maybe a WARNING or a MUTE but instantly going with the most harsh punishment is not a good idea. sometimes i would joke with my friends, with insults and they would insult me back, and then id get banned for 12 hour, once i said "p***y" and instantly got banned for "inappropriate chat" . mods are being very harsh recently and not being fair and even if you contact MULTIPLE mods and apologize and assure it wont happen again they still will not shorten or appeal my bans. seeing as i have spent at least 150 + usd on this game and getting banned/ muted while joking with my friends or saying a slur even though im a part of the community, which i get, shouldn't be said, i have learned my lesson, but shouldn't immediately lead to a ban. A WARNING OR MUTE WOULDVE BEEN A BIT LESS HARSH. |
Anonymod « Citoyen » 1614134040000
| 13 | ||
Hello! This is from all of us mods. We always try to improve our processes and try our best to listen to player feedback. We also always aim to bounce our thoughts off each other, including our newest staff members who have the most recent experience from the eyes of a player, quite a bit to try to keep up with the needs of the community. It is hard for us to address all of your complaints here because everyone has their own sanction history that we cannot publicly discuss, but we will always talk it through privately. What we ask of you is to please understand that even if you do not see problems with your behaviour, or what you said and got sanctioned for, does not mean a problem did not exist. And that those problems are when we have to step in and take action. We understand not everyone may agree with how we may sanction things, but we hope with you reaching out to us and calmly talking things through would help us both understand each other better. We try our best to be as transparent as possible with our reasoning behind your sanctions, so that you can avoid sanctions in the future. You are always welcome to approach us to talk things through to hopefully reach an understanding. All of our forum PMs are open, and most of us have Discord DMs open as well. If you would like to go over your ban please reach out about individual cases privately, as we will not air your private sanction out in public. |
Mousechris « Censeur » 1614135000000
| 2 | ||
Anonymod a dit : We, or at least I, do reach out to you guys all the time, you never listen, the fact that in my case the Mapcrew said they didn't care due to the context only shows that the mod team isn't actually listening. Context always matters, it mattered in my case and I'm sure it matters in many other player's cases. Even now you're literally saying "your behaviour" this isn't an issue with our behavior it's an issue with the mods. As I said, the EN sentinel team did the exact same thing 4 years ago and now the forums are near dead, if the mod team keeps up with non context punishments, and continues to moderate with very clear and obvious biases of social politics leaking into sanctions, people will quit the game. Look at how many likes the OP has, look at how many complaints this thread has, this is not stuff you can just look at and go "you're the problem lol", otherwise you're HURTING the EN community, the very community you are supposed to protect. |
20 | ||
Every moderation team uses a context doesn’t matter approach when it comes to slurs. The words themselves have an inherent negative connotation. Allowing the use of the word in some instances will likely lead to others using it as well. People who find these slurs insulting to their community/race/religion/etc. don’t want to see these repeatedly used in online games. It seems like this thread is advocating for allowing slurs which have historically been used to belittle people for things they can’t change. The normalization regarding the use of slurs is not something I can support. I’m here to protect the people that find the use of these words offensive. There are many other words to use that aren’t offensive to others. I fail to see how outright banning slurs regardless of context is oppressive as it’s made out to be here. You should consider how people who find these words offensive would feel. |
Mousechris « Censeur » 1614138420000
| 0 | ||
Link a dit : As someone who is special ed, I am not in any way offended at the thought of someone literally telling another person not to insult themselves. And if the mod team is so against slurs, why do they use them themselves? The mod team referred to me as "deplorable" something inherently socially political, and something half of Americans get offended by. And if we care soooo much about what offends people (which again, as someone who's special ed, I am not in any way offended at the thought of someone literally telling someone not to insult themselves. That's ridiculous.) Then when I pointed out the mod team is using different standards for maps forcing maps of women to cover up, comparing it to a patriarchy, why did they defend a patriarchal government? They implied I was racist when I pointed this out, because apparently being against patriarchal governments is somehow racist. Again, if the context is perfectly fine for a staff application, then how do you fail to see how outright banning slurs regardless of context can only serve to cause confusion for the mod team, and distrust for the general community? All people are going to do when seeing that is say "Why did he get in trouble? He was doing the right thing." Eventually you will see groups of people spark up against the mods (ps; you're at that part now) and then if no changes are made people will quit the game, the community will be damaged from the fact that DISCUSSION involves DISCUSSING things, discussion is not actively fun or interesting when there is no controversy, when there is no disagreement. It's not interesting when people feel afraid to speak from censorship. The mod team should not be saying "you're the problem" they need to be saying "Ok we need to relook at how we sanction things, people are taking an issue with it." Also why are you saying "every moderation team uses context" then in the next paragraph you're saying "I fail to see how outright banning slurs regardless of context" you're saying one thing, then saying another, which is it? Is the moderation team looking at context? Or are they not? You can't have both. From what I can see, they are not looking at context. Based off the fact you literally said yourself "I fail to see how outright banning slurs regardless of context" I don't see how that is wrong. Link a dit : Something else I'd like to point out, you are literally a sentinel, if you truly believe this, why are you not locking this thread? If the reason is because you know locking this thread will only further promote the very problem going on here, then how do you still fail to see the problem? Either this thread is "advocating for slurs" and as said that's definitely an objective reason to lock it, or, you're not actually addressing the core issue here, the fact you didn't lock this thread the moment you said that, just goes to show you can clearly see there is a core underlying issue here that is not the problem of all these people, and locking the thread would only fuel the flames of that underlying issue. Dernière modification le 1614139920000 |
1 | ||
Can I just say something, I guess? Mousechris a dit : The reason they are afraid is due to how the staff acts. I've got no means to hurt both sides here but in previous years, there were staff members who put their pride on the line, saying that the sanction they've given was correct even if the player's view here is the right one. Some people would choose not to address those kind of issues given the state of the game that currently is. Though I must agree with Peanut_butter here. The thing is, the EN staff used to be flat out horrible a year ago, yet they are open to changes. It's kind of late for those things as the playerbase gradually decreased and will keep going, but they do try though. I guess, better late than never? Some changes require a lot of time and effort. I do believe and hope that they manage to change a lot of things to like.. ease up the players maybe? I don't know how the current state with sanctions in the game is, though I'd like to note they try to listen to the players. What I hope for the most, is that pride has no place here. If certain person starts arguing with a staff member about their sanction, some would find themselves helpless if their mute or ban will not be removed from their accounts and would start resorting to things like "ugh i hate the staff" "i wish they were never here lol" "i wish the game just dies" and all, that's how players start thinking if something that's related to their accounts happen. Worst case, going after the staff team. I don't think people deserve this, but just because of a sanction they've given to you, you have to be harsh? I mean.. There's the contact form. If one cares, they'd take a look and question the person responsible for sanctioning others. |
Anathema « Citoyen » 1614200760000
| 3 | ||
Candycain a dit : Let me get this straight: Just because you've played for a long time and bought fraises mods are supposed to treat you differently? The rules clearly state that insults or any form of inappropriate chat are against the rules. I'm sorry but you should have kept that in mind. Dernière modification le 1614201360000 |
Insoholic « Citoyen » 1614202140000
| 1 | ||
Unfortunately, this has been a recurring issue in the bulgarian community as well. Thank you very much for bringing up such an important topic for discussion! Dernière modification le 1614347280000 |
10 | ||
why would you need to use slurs in the first place, you shouldnt be using them to demean yourself anyway. in my own personal experiences the r slur has been used to mock and demean me and there is no reason why you should be using that against yourself or others. if it doesnt hurt you , thats great but it can hurt others and as someone who has been bullied + harassed with the word its best.. people learn to not use the word as a whole. |
Anythin « Consul » 1614284940000
| 8 | ||
Anonymod a dit : Nah, you're not open to feedback. You're only interested in feedback that is consistent with your line of thought. |