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Want your map to become P4?
Atinesta
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#1
  28
  • How to get P4
  • Examples involving maps
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http://i.imgur.com/C3YO1b6.png?1

"deAR P4 mAPCreW. whY YOu nevER PeRm mY mAP? i puT SO muCH eFforT InTO It - yoU MAke uS MAD!111"



Right. Lately we've been getting a few reports, asking why some of your maps have been denied, so the P4 Crew decided that it'd be best to give you a thread on some do's and don'ts regarding P4 maps.

Do
• Create maps that have more than one or two ways of completing them, but make sure that they aren't exceedingly symmetrical/mirrored.
Why?
Maps that only have a few ways to complete them are just deemed to be a bit boring and repetitive, since it more or less cancels the Shaman's creativity. Symmetrical maps goes hand and hand with this, there's only a few ways to complete the map but get this, all the ways to complete them are the same (because it's symmetrical).

• Make sure that your map offers good support (a flat surface/ground) for the Shaman to build on, especially at the start (where they spawn) so that they have a stable foundation.
Why?
It's annoying otherwise, it's extremely tedious for the Shaman to have to build on any ground other than one that is flat.

• Make sure you have space for the Shaman to build so that they have a sense of freedom, however be sure that you do implement some grounds and obstacles for the Shaman to encounter.
Why?
If the Shaman has space to build, immediately the map isn't so overwhelming to them and they have the freedom to think of a few various ways to complete the map, however it's worth noting that maps that have too much space can be written off as 'generic' reason being that it doesn't challenge or inspire the Shaman in any way.

• Be aware of the difficulty of your map (this is important)
Why?
Maps that are too difficult are not accepted into P4 whatsoever, for the reason being that they could either take too much time for a less experienced Shaman, or that it has a few other complications to it (tight space, not enough time to complete the map). Keep in mind, we don't want maps that are easily completed either, we do want to challenge the Shamans, so that they are forced to think about how they could complete the map or for lack of a better word, be resourceful.TL;DR maps that are too difficult are overwhelming, maps that are too easy are boring.

• Consider Shaman abilities and how they may affect the game-play.
Why?
Shaman abilities can make or break a map. Would the bubbles ruin your map or make it impossible? Would the spring skill make your map too easy? If the Shaman has the Demolition Worker skill, if they were to remove something, would it take away the challenge of the map?



Don't
• Cramped/tight space is something to steer clear of.
Why?
Other than the fact that it earns you an "AHHHHHH" from Atinesta? Well, having a map that is extremely tight on space can overwhelm the Shaman and can make building exceedingly difficult for them (and we don't want that).

• Unnecessary obstacles are.. not necessary.
What is considered an unnecessary obstacle?
You can consider wind, anything other than normal gravity and excessive (anti) cloud grounds as poor obstacle choices. Why? It can over-complicate the game-play and therefore, frustrate the Shaman. Having some (anti) clouds are fine, but not in excess.

• For the love of everything that is good in this world, don't make maps that encourage a buildathon.
Why?
Buildathons are the bane of every Shamans existence. It shouldn't take until there's 10 seconds left on the clock for the Shaman to be done building, it's incredibly frustrating and overwhelming.

• Don't create maps that can be considered encouraging a 'forced path' for the Shaman to build through.
Why?
If you do this, you can expect an "AHHHHHH" on the comment for your map. Forced path maps cancel out any creativity or resourcefulness that the Shaman may of had prior to them having to build for the map. They become extremely repetitive and makes the map (including the gameplay) unexciting.

• This is P4, don't submit maps that are for other categories.
Why?
You don't need an explanation. Submit your maps to the appropriate category.

@7209056
http://i.imgur.com/SCzrVzS.png
Why would this be considered a bad map?
Well, it very clearly is a map that has confined/tight spaces, and is more or less a forced path map. This renders the Shaman incapable of building in any direction they'd desire, and they may even end up slightly vexed by the fact that they have limited space. These are only the obvious issues regarding the map, it's also worth mentioning that the lack of obstacles; this ensures that the map is extremely repetitive for the Shaman's to have to go through and thus; monotonous. All of this affects the game-play as well, which is rather poor as a whole.

@876778
http://i.imgur.com/KINXkN2.png
Why would this be considered a bad map?
At first, it definitely seemed as if the grounds were randomly placed, which therefore made the game-play of the map a bit erratic and too simple. Also, this map definitely has a few unnecessary obstacles which happen to be the few clouds and the wind. The clouds are just in the way, something that the Shaman needs to build over, having little to no use other than to take up time. however this is primarily due to the use of wind; which makes building for this map extremely frustrating, due to it slowing down the Shaman greatly, all in all, this map becomes way too complicated for the P4 rotation.

@7209069
http://i.imgur.com/1S2B642.png
Why would this be considered an OK map?
The Shaman more or less has an unlimited amount of space to build, however it could be considered too much space which can make the map seem empty or even generic. While yes, there's multiple ways for them to complete the map, all of the solutions that the Shaman creates will be in more or less the same fashion, which can render the map to be repetitive and unexciting. It's worth noting that there's no challenge here, other than the fact that this map supports a forced path atmosphere.
How? The mice cannot phase through the anticloud. Therefore, making the Shaman have to build around it entirely, which is time-consuming.

@2316113
http://i.imgur.com/WOnQLKo.png
Why would this be considered an OK map?
The design of the map overall is simplistic, which can make it easy-going for the Shaman to build for. However, with the placement of the grounds, it can make the builds that the Shaman's make repetitive, regardless of the map having an open space for the Shaman to manipulate and be resourceful, every build that they create will be more of less the same which can result in it being monotonous at best. Moving on, as aforementioned, there is plenty of open space for this map, which cancels out the possibility of it being a forced path map. To sum up, the map itself is nice, however repetitive and boring.

@3097109
http://i.imgur.com/92MGIwg.png
Why is this considered a good map?
To begin, the decoration of this map is definitely a good touch, since it doesn't make the map seem so empty. The game-play offered in this map isn't too bad either, as it can make the Shaman inspired when it comes to building this map, due to the fact that there is a variety of ways for the Shaman to complete the map. The only poor thing to point out would be the lack of obstacles, however, the one it has (the cloud) isn't too difficult nor is it too easy to complete, therefore offering a good, balanced challenge despite the rest of the map being easy-going. All in all, this map, while it is simple, executes the concept it tried to portray well, and it is a fine balance between being too difficult and easy.

@7103900
http://i.imgur.com/qQH5wOk.png
Why is this considered a good map?
Well, for starters it is definitely pleasing to the eye, with the various decorations which doesn't make it seem empty. Despite the decoration, this maps stands to be quite decent, seeing how that there is plenty of ways for the Shaman to encounter the map, each having about the same complexity, but all in all, none being more used than the other (making them balanced). It's worth viewing that how the creator of this map used clouds and diagonal shaped grounds as their obstacles, in a way to force the Shaman to be resourceful with how they build. All in all, it's a fair map that's relatively simple yet effect.

Credits to Atinesta, whom came up with the idea of creating the thread and for helping with some of the reviews.
Credits to Kurtwild, whom translated this thread for ES and for helping with some of the reviews.
Credits to Plubio, whom contributed with some of the key points and ideas for this thread.

Have any questions regarding P4 or this thread? Feel free to ask in the comments!


Anuel2blea
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#2
  0
I love the introduction. Now do one for P13 pls
Dextech
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#3
  0
Very good, congratulations!
Vintage
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#4
  0
Good thread, thanks :)
Kimsterjay
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#5
  0
Nice thread, thanks Atines ^^
Censere
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#6
  1
definitely not a copy of how to make your map P17 by barrydarsow
thank you for the advice atinesta
Atinesta
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#7
  2
Drescen a dit :
definitely not a copy of how to make your map P17 by barrydarsow
thank you for the advice atinesta

It was definitely something that inspired us to create this, and I hope some other map categories may have this in the future as well. I believe that the map makers should know what is good to have and what's not good to have while creating/making their maps, the hope is that this could possibly increase the quality of the maps submitted as well!

Dernière modification le 1500779340000
Cetos
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#8
  0
Very well done thread, congratz Atine, Kurtnoob and Plubio!

but I think you forgot to mention that cobwebs are perfect for a shaman map, just look at Foslii maps :P
Virtini
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#9
  0
very important stuff, i dont play normal at all so i wont make alot of shaman maps but it definitely can help alot of people as its clear and really understandable, definitely not "how to make p17" by barry which... doesnt really helps anyway

may I feel free to add this topic in translated version to polish map editor section? maybe it would encourage some ppl to try themselves or just make them think before submitting really bad map ;v
Grimmaro
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#10
  1
Very nice advice, definitely something that took me a long time to learn through trial and error as a map maker. I hope some people take this to heart when submitting for future shaman maps

Atinesta P4 pro

Dernière modification le 1502408160000
Donmickey
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#11
  1
Nice thread. Especially the introduction xD
Tucancitto
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#12
  5
http://i.imgur.com/C3YO1b6.png?1 "nIcE tHreaD !11"
Honorabilis
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#13
  4
I want this topic for every single rotation categories.
Anuel2blea
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#14
  0
Honorabilis a dit :
I want this topic for every single rotation categories.

i agree
Kinhusxd
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#15
  0
AHHHHHH

Just kidding, this thread is awesome! :D
Atinesta
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#16
  2
Kinhusxd a dit :
AHHHHHH

Just kidding, this thread is awesome! :D

<3 you're awesome.
Finerlobster
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#17
  0
Honorabilis a dit :
I want this topic for every single rotation categories.

Yeah, that would be great. We don't have feedback from the rejected maps in some categories.
Shadowtrophy
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#18
  0
i can see the points you're trying to get across, but these are highly subjective. i've seen more p4 maps than i can count that use the same platform placements to use as a build anchor, and others where bridge totems are basically ez saves. i dont think it's mapcrew's fault per se (since mapmakers are the ones with the ideas), but there's just a lot of the same approved maps going to p4.

all the examples here can be critiqued into any category of good, bad, ugly, or a combination of all 3.
Cave
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#19
  2
Shadowtrophy a dit :
i can see the points you're trying to get across, but these are highly subjective. i've seen more p4 maps than i can count that use the same platform placements to use as a build anchor, and others where bridge totems are basically ez saves. i dont think it's mapcrew's fault per se (since mapmakers are the ones with the ideas), but there's just a lot of the same approved maps going to p4.

all the examples here can be critiqued into any category of good, bad, ugly, or a combination of all 3.

i don't think maps that give easy saves with bridge totem are really the map makers fault, more so the admins fault for adding completely broken features to the game. p4 map makers shouldn't have to consider every single broken skill that has been added to the game when they make their maps. a huge amount of p4 maps can be solved with cloud+long bridge totem+springs on hard, or long plank+tape on divine, both of which are boring and require 0 skill, but that doesn't mean the map or the idea is bad, it just means skills completely break the game.
Shadowtrophy
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#20
  0
that's true too. but i've seen times where mapcrew would just say "oh yeah that's a 3-5 plank solution on easy mode" and then toss the map out of any further consideration, when some other "3-5 plank solution" maps are in the rotation. its just an inconsistency of critiquing which stems back to how subjective the judging is.
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