I'm aware they're not comparable, but I'm trying to provide a similar instance where people outside of the community shouldn't decide on what offends people in it. 'Tis all. Sorry for the confusion once again.

Also I myself am part of the LGTBQIA+ community so shrug

Haruhitastic a dit :

I'm aware they're not comparable, but I'm trying to provide a similar instance where people outside of the community shouldn't decide on what offends people in it. 'Tis all. Sorry for the confusion once again.

Also I myself am part of the LGTBQIA+ community so shrug

I personally do not find them similar or comparable.
Nevertheless, thank you for your support.

The Japanese example that Haruhi provided works perfectly.

She's just simply stating that you can't judge what is and isn't offensive, it doesn't matter if you're LGBTQIA+ or not, someone within LGBTQIA+
you can't say what is and isn't offensive for your community.

someone within the community might be offended by being called gay or it being used in a random manner.
More so when not everyone is out and when you call someone gay you're threatening them to being outted to everyone.


You might not see waifu as an offensive term, which is why you think that it has no value to the discussion, but some Japanese people might see it as an offensive term.

Jammerys a dit :

She's just simply stating that you can't judge what is and isn't offensive, it doesn't matter if you're LGBTQIA+ or not, someone within LGBTQIA+
you can't say what is and isn't offensive for your community.

wat no
I'm saying if you're outside of the community you don't hold a right to declare what is and isn't offensive. It was a poor example apparently, I thought it was fine at the time and now I regret posting it.

Jammerys a dit :

More so when not everyone is out and when you call someone gay you're threatening them to being outted to everyone.

Uhmmm not necessarily in my opinion. If someone says "ur gay" to me, they're not "outing me" (and "ur pansexual" is hardly an insult lol) but it can be used as a childish insult or just as a joke. I doubt people will actually assume I'm gay.

Anyway I guess we'll see if change actually happens or if it's more lip service from staff and they'll hope people will be silent after all the flack.

I think the entire point just flew over my head. I'm not usually this dumb.

but I don't think we have the right to judge what is and isn't an offensive word.

You need to look at it with an open mind, you might not find it to be offensive or feel threatened that someone is going to out you because you're being called gay/pansexual ect.

but someone else might feel differently about that.

Jammerys a dit :

I think the entire point just flew over my head. I'm not usually this dumb.

but I don't think we have the right to judge what is and isn't an offensive word.

Agree we could be looking at this wrong way, private with another, yes. But in chat room I'd say no. Bullies pick on the people

Jammerys a dit :

You need to look at it with an open mind, you might not find it to be offensive or feel threatened that someone is going to out you because you're being called gay/pansexual ect.

Yeah, I get that completely, don't get me wrong; but the fact someone will actually think "ur gay" = "you are actually homosexual" feels so small haha

angelaffff a dit :

Agree we could be looking at this wrong way, private with another, yes. But in chat room I'd say no. Bullies pick on the people

?????

Angel is saying that in private, it's perfectly suitable to call each other gay, but in a public chat room it isnt, due to the fact that if people have homophobia they might suddenly be more offensive towards those specific people involved.

Also I'd probably be able to take some posts in this thread a little bit more serious if they didn't bait people in game into being purposely homophobic.
I've seen some in-game comments that people have said and noticed.
but I'm not going to name names as that isn't the way to go here.

"If you ever insult him, he cries homophobe."
"If you refuse to be gay with him, you'll be a homophobe to him."
"If X is spamming and i say shut up, its because i'm a homophobe apparently."

If people didn't bait things like this, you'd probably find things to be a lot less offensive then what you actually experience, but because you do this it frustrates people and some people have short tempers.

I'm pretty sure the topic is about the fact people are being muted unfairly for homophobia, not because they're not.

I wanna mention the way people who actually insult the LGBT community with slurs such as ''faggot'' or just replying with a sense of disgust towards gay people in game, don't get banned, muted or anything. (most of the time)

This argument makes zero sense. If the staff team were homophobic like some users in this thread are so vehemently proclaiming, why would they mute for homophobic insults in the first place? Why not let people sling around slurs like they're nothing, or even encourage people to be hateful? It is ridiculous to accuse staff of being homophobic when a good portion of their time is spent punishing those who are actually being offensive towards gay people. Your tribe wouldn't even exist if this game was oppressing homosexuality and advocacy thereof.

All this seems like to me is a few vocal people crying wolf and blowing this situation entirely out of proportion because their friends happened to be muted for reasons they disagree with. In one of the most recent incidents (thread posted yesterday) where a player was muted for "homophobia," the OP clearly shows that the player in question was unmuted almost immediately afterwards on the grounds that it wasn't a justified sanction. I have no idea how you can claim an entire administration is homophobic from that one example.

In regards to people who are griping about people getting away with slinging actual homophobia-fueled insults: it would be nice if you were offended enough to click the Report button. People aren't instantly banned for bad words in this game. We aren't playing Club Penguin.

You read absolutely nothing of the OP, didn't you?

I read all of it, thanks for asking.

Okay, so it must've all gone over your head then.

There have been THREE INSTANCES I know of within the past twenty-four hours ALONE where users have been muted for "homophobia" when in actuality nothing "homophobic" was said. Meanwhile, people who are actually spewing real insults have nothing done to them.
You cannot even say "I'm gay" without being muted now apparently, which is NOT homophobic, but it is homophobic to silence that because you're essentially saying "You're gay, you can't say you are."
Do you get the point now, or do I need to explain it a bit better?

He does however have a point.
the /report function is greatly ignore and barely used for any sort of bad language.


Mainly because it's so difficult to report someone for bad language as they might stop doing it after you've reported and thus the mod has zero proof.

You don't need to explain it to me, but thanks for the offer. However, I don't understand why you feel the obligation to do so if you had no direct involvement in the "three instances" in question. Please explain this.

Also, how are three incidents exemplary of the entire administration's stance on homophobia? Simply because they all occurred within the past 24 hours? As Secretive posted here, the administration is clearly reconsidering how they should address situations like this in the future. That should be indication enough that the general consensus is that saying the word "gay" is not muteworthy, especially in light of the fact that one of the sanctions for which was lifted almost immediately afterwards.

Also, if you think "people who are actually spewing real insults have nothing done to them," you could not possibly be more wrong. Get real.

You do realise Secretive's post and the fact that it's being discussed is partly because of this whole thing, right?

Also admins are the ones who set the guidelines for punishment; so yes, if the guidelines say to mute for all instances of the word "gay" then yes, they can be seen as homophobic.

Finally,

Mollusc a dit :

Also, if you think "people who are actually spewing real insults have nothing done to them," you could not possibly be more wrong. Get real.

This is from the post that I made in Staff FAQ that further escalated this:

a dit :

[2:52:53 PM] #TeamBest Crashwolf: [~Moderator] Du kannst für 1 Stunden nicht sprechen. Grund: Homophobie
[2:58:38 PM] #TeamBest Crashwolf: i came into the room and tom was like crash <333333333 and i said tom <3333333 and people were like "gays" and i said, "yeah, gay" cause i cant use elaborated english in DE and got muted
[2:55:05 PM] #TeamBest Crashwolf: its funny cause i was replying to someone who actually called us gays in a derogatory manner'
[3:10:01 PM] #TeamBest Crashwolf: the guy who called us gays didnt get muted

And I can think of multiple other times where users have been offensive, but because mods weren't paying attention, the offense scrolled off their window and they didn't do jack squat about it.

Haruhitastic a dit :

You do realise Secretive's post and the fact that it's being discussed is partly because of this whole thing, right?

Yes, I realize this. That is why I mentioned it in the first place.

Haruhitastic a dit :

Also admins are the ones who set the guidelines for punishment

The admins might be the ones who set the guidelines for punishment but, unfortunately, moderators and arbitres are the ones who enforce those guidelines. These are real people, so your mileage may vary; people interpret things differently, and one moderator may even misinterpret a situation. Misunderstanding the context of a situation doesn't automatically make someone a raging homophobe.

Haruhitastic a dit :

if the guidelines say to mute for all instances of the word "gay" then yes, they can be seen as homophobic.

But do the guidelines actually say that? How do you know this? I am pretty sure, for example, the very existence of a tribe named SGKGBT disproves the idea that all instances of the word "gay" are bad. Saying the word warrants a mute every time is a bit of a stretch.

I am not sure of the relevancy of alluding to a sanction that occurred in DE, seeing as borrowed English words may have alternative connotations in other languages. Maybe this moderator saw all of the other "gays" and mistakenly assumed the user in question was also using it as an insult. In that case, perhaps it could have even been corrected or annulled. I cannot speak for DE staff members, but perhaps it's more commonly used as an insult in German than a term of self-description. I have no idea and I won't pretend like I do. Again, I don't think that is reflective of the entire administration.

Haruhitastic a dit :

And I can think of multiple other times where users have been offensive, but because mods weren't paying attention, the offense scrolled off their window and they didn't do jack squat about it.

So they're homophobic and corrupt because they weren't paying attention?

Mollusc a dit :

But do the guidelines actually say that? How do you know this?

I'm not 100% sure on it but, reading this gives me the impression that nearly every instance of usage of the word is muted:

Whiskypickle a dit :

While I understand 'gay' isn't always used in a negative term anymore and that it's perfectly possible for people to have respectful conversations using the term, it is still prominently used as an insult against homosexual people with the intent of being emasculating. There's no denying that. When it comes to giving out sanctions, staff try and check the context of what is said first before handing out a sanction since we understand that not every case may deserve one. We do tend to give out mutes in situations when there is little to no context or if it's not clear beyond any reasonable doubt of the intent of what was said since it is common for people to try and intend to be insulting or negative while claiming that they never intended the use of that term negatively when caught. Hence why warnings and low sanctions are given out in these circumstances.

Source

Now if a moderator wants to come in and correct me and say that the "I'm gay" mute handed out was by a gung-ho arb, then okay. But considering people have been muted for using "gay" in any context, homophobic or not, for at least two years; I don't think it's just because of one arb.

Mollusc a dit :

So they're homophobic and corrupt because they weren't paying attention?

What the hell? Don't twist my words. Never did I imply that. At all. In fact, I request you point out where I even so much as hinted to that idea.

I'm not arguing anymore with an obvious alt. Face me on your main.