Raise the requirements for divine mode

winter4438 a dit :
No Support
Sorry, but I have a few reasons

- Many people aren't able to play multiple hours per day. I'm pretty active and I've just reached 4k saves in 5 months. 10k seems to be pushing the limits a bit. Besides, once you unlock it, you aren't forced to play it. You have the option to just ignore it and continue on easy or hard mode. If it was suddenly raised from 5k to 10k, many people who, are like, less than 50 saves away would probably get a little annoyed if their goal was to unlock divine, then suddenly, they're restarting a goal of 5k. Also, when people unlock Divine, I'm pretty sure they would've seen some Divine Mode shamans build several times before. It's not hard to watch and learn.

I agree with winter

#23

The Divine requirements are already high enough anyway.
How come all of your threads are about restraining Divine mode players?

/NOSUPPORT

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#24

elite4woolfy a dit :
The Divine requirements are already high enough anyway.
How come all of your threads are about restraining Divine mode players?

/NOSUPPORT

Read the entire thread, i've repeated myself enough times in it

#25

The biggest flaw of this suggestion is the fact that the OP assumes that the level of skill correlates with the amount of saves someone has. This is a terrible misconception. Your amount of saves shows no reflection of your skill level. I am sure this was intended when the game was created, but due to the fact there are many maps that require no shaman, it is very easy for a shaman to get saves without doing anything that requires skill. As such raising the requirement level for divine mode will not help raise the skill level of your average shaman. It will merely take them longer to unlock divine mode without the guarantee that their skills will actually improve. Therefore I do not support this suggestion.

#26

Anythin a dit :
The biggest flaw of this suggestion is the fact that the OP assumes that the level of skill correlates with the amount of saves someone has. This is a terrible misconception. Your amount of saves shows no reflection of your skill level. I am sure this was intended when the game was created, but due to the fact there are many maps that require no shaman, it is very easy for a shaman to get saves without doing anything that requires skill. As such raising the requirement level for divine mode will not help raise the skill level of your average shaman. It will merely take them longer to unlock divine mode without the guarantee that their skills will actually improve. Therefore I do not support this suggestion.

You make a valid point. However I don't believe there is anything that could be done to assure every single person will gain the knowledge they need by simply playing the game. For something like that to be accomplished, a tutorial is mandatory. This means that all we can do is try to increase the chance that the average player will grasp building before they reach this very challenging mode. On top of that as stated many a time in this thread, hard mode is currently dead content and I think it deserves a larger amount of players. Keeping some of the lesser/moderately experienced shamans in hard mode for a while will not only benefit them, but the game's content will be used by a wider percentage of players.

#27

Tomdizzy a dit :
Keeping some of the lesser/moderately experienced shamans in hard mode for a while will not only benefit them, but the game's content will be used by a wider percentage of players.

What if you look at it from a different perspective? In the current situation, every round depends on the (lack of) skill of the shaman. This is what makes the game unpredictable and keeps it fresh. Who cares if shamans use anvils to keep their planks steady? Who cares if planks start to spaz because of these anvils? That's all part of the game which keeps things interesting. If you have more people who all use the same build, the game will go back to being predictable just like it was when there was no hard- or divine mode.

You claim that it is a problem that unskilled shamans don't know the basic of building, but at the end of the day those anvil users or balloon spammers still manage to get mice to the hole. I don't know why this is a problem. Failing is also part of the game.

#28

By your logic, Tomdizzy,
why not raise the requirements of hard mode?

#30

elite4woolfy a dit :
By your logic, Tomdizzy,
why not raise the requirements of hard mode?

I honestly wouldn't mind it, but easy mode is so easy and simple that it doesn't really deserve too much use. Exceptions are for minigames such as the spiritual module which I personally find very challenging and fun.

@Anythin What are your thoughts on the underuse of hardmode? Almost all new mice's profiles look something like 30,000 / 2,000 / 28,000.
Is this not any concern? I personally detest dead content in a game. I believe all content deserves to see equal use, and that therefore the acquisition of said content should be spread out more. You made very valid points regarding inexperienced divine shams, I still would prefer to see them build more of the time successfully though.

#31

Tomdizzy a dit :
30,000 / 2,000 / 28,000.

If someone can get 28000 saves in Divine Mode then they obviously don't need to use Hard mode.

#32

Tomdizzy a dit :
@Anythin What are your thoughts on the underuse of hardmode?

The underuse of hard mode compared to other modes isn't the same problem as the lack of skills of shamans, however, I think it is easy to explain why people don't use it. It's not so much because divine mode is easy to reach, it's because divine mode is more rewarding. People who aim to unlock all shaman skills will choose to use divine mode over hard mode (and easy mode), simply because you get more shaman XP per save.

Should we be concerned about this? I'm not sure. I know people who deliberately choose to play in hard mode or easy mode, simply because they don't like divine mode. Personally, I only play in easy mode because I can't be bothered with hard or divine mode. In my situation, I choose to neglect a big chunk of shaman possibilities because they simply don't interest me. If you want people to play in hard mode more, the question should be what can be done to make hard mode more appealing. As of right now, hard mode is not as rewarding as divine mode while at the same time it's quite restricted compared to easy mode.

To not lose ourselves in the hard mode story, let's go back to the problem of this thread, the lack of skilled shamans who use divine mode. I believe this is a problem that will solve itself in time. Shamans learn through trial and error. It takes time to get used to all mechanisms of the game and tricks to build. I don't see why shamans should be forced to do this in hard mode, because the result is the same: shamans who fail at building. I won't deny that it'll take longer to learn in divine mode because it's more difficult, but that's the key. It takes time. Logically it takes longer to master than shamaning in easy mode. Divine mode has been available to us for roughly two years now. I wonder if this is still as much of a problem in another two years time, when the community has had more time to learn how to use divine mode.

#33

winter4438 a dit :
No Support
Sorry, but I have a few reasons

- Many people aren't able to play multiple hours per day. I'm pretty active and I've just reached 4k saves in 5 months. 10k seems to be pushing the limits a bit. Besides, once you unlock it, you aren't forced to play it. You have the option to just ignore it and continue on easy or hard mode. If it was suddenly raised from 5k to 10k, many people who, are like, less than 50 saves away would probably get a little annoyed if their goal was to unlock divine, then suddenly, they're restarting a goal of 5k. Also, when people unlock Divine, I'm pretty sure they would've seen some Divine Mode shamans build several times before. It's not hard to watch and learn.

^
/nosupport

#34

I /no supported this at the beginning, but as I'm seeing more and more shamans eager to get divine mode as soon as they are unlocked and then having no idea how to finish a map with divine. Personally, I'd like to see more skilled builds from divine shamans, not just summoning balloons with their huge range or teleporting players. Some of these shamans never learn to build properly or stably so..it's just a waste of time for them to be on divine mode in the first place.

Although I feel like raising the standards won't help in any way improving the skills of these players, I would like to see some kind of change to the divine standards that will let players unlock the mode when they fully know how to build with real things. I don't have a suggestion that will cover this wish of mine, but I think the easy and hard mode saves in this topic should be dropped to maybe 10 000 easy mode saves and 6000-7000 hard mode.

My point is that we can't promise that shamans will learn how to build even with their high stats. Simply because the transition from hard mode to divine mode is a big difference and change. On the other hand, it is also possible for shamans to learn and see different builds and sbsorb them when they have been playing for a long time.

Concluding this, I do think that the standards right now are too low because players will choose divine mode anyway immediately after unlocking it because of the titles and achievements, or simply because they can feel more 'pro'. I am awaiting a better suggestion that will teach new players how to build. So right now I will have to say /half support.

#35

/nosupp

#36

/nosupport

I think they should add new shaman mode instead of changing current modes.

Edit: Also I don't see how hard mode is "dead content" when about 90% of top 100 ranked players have massively more hardmode saves than divisaves.
And by quick check it seems that about 70% in top 500 have more hardmode saves than divisaves.
People use it more because it grants easier saves with same exp given per save.

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#37

/half support

I agree very much that the requirement for divine is too low but I feel 10,000 hard saves is a bit high? I think 6,000 or 7,500 is enough.

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#38

No support at all

#39

/no support

#40

mudityapls a dit :
/nosupport

I think they should add new shaman mode instead of changing current modes.

Edit: Also I don't see how hard mode is "dead content" when about 90% of top 100 ranked players have massively more hardmode saves than divisaves.
And by quick check it seems that about 70% in top 500 have more hardmode saves than divisaves.
People use it more because it grants easier saves with same exp given per save.

Those players like myself played in hardmode whilst divine mode did not exist for years.

Also,

Dernière modification le

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