• Int
• M.

cchiiko a dit :

I only have one reason: the game isn't advertised like Transformice.
If Fortoresse was shown on the screen when you visited transformice.com, more players might click on it and join the community. If Fortoresse had more players, then the admins might think it's worth their time to fix the game.

virus_code a dit :

Hackers x5

solfn a dit :

Pretty much the entire code of fortoresse has a big flaw somehow, and it all needs to be reworked.

Movement is too choppy: Server tick rates (player position update rates) are horrible making it easy for people to exploit loopholes in the server lag to literally teleport to players with no chance of them seeing what's going on. This terrible tickrate carries over to TFM physics objects (but not mice) and it would be much better if the mice ticks were the same as fortoresse player ticks, and fortoresse accounted for the potential higher travel rates of players due to launching by bombs (often being faster than the popular CJS)

The guns are uninteresting and boring: If we get a new gun it'll just be something with slightly tweaked stats, like a 6 damage DMR with a slower fire rate than the aug and high accuracy. We want to see something new that makes players use the guns differently, like a gun that has pushback on recoil (the player will visibly be forced backwards when they fire the gun) or a gun that requires a spinup time. We don't want to see anything that can be broken because of ping. On Vertix.io, flamethrowers are stupid because it's so easy to hit players by just walking up to them and getting the advantage by pinging them out, so we don't want these. Some other guns that could be interesting are guns that don't break conj, guns that convert enemy conj to your own conj, guns that lower the enemy's rate of conj/health recovery, artillery that can be aimed over walls along the z plane. Team Fortress 2 has some interesting alternative weapons that encourage players to play differently to get the best results; some ideas could be inspired from there.

Precision system on guns is flawed: None of the weapons are able to properly simulate damage falloff due to distance as is present in other games. This makes damage per second at a large distance very luck based and it gives rise to annoying weapon spam that can sometimes do ridiculous amounts of damage. Combined with the horrible tick rates above, it can cause laggier players to get a free kill because hit boxes are client based and not server based; ie you come across players who walk up to you, you run away and still take so much damage even well after you've gotten out of the way.

Aiming is not promoted in this game: Also, lower accuracy weapons do not promote aiming in this game because the lower the accuracy of a weapon, the more lehway a gun gets to shoot around at enemies because the chance of hitting an enemy at a certain range within the precision arc of a gun's spray is the same no matter where the enemy is within that field. So essentially, all a spaser/mp5 user has to do is point the gun in my general direction and spray and pray, and they're almost always rewarded for it. Better models for spray in other games promote aiming in shotgun type weapons; shotguns can be really powerful only if the player knows how to aim. Too many times I'm resisted by a spaser or mp5 user who just fires the gun in my general direction and gets 10 damage forcing me to flee; there's no aiming involved. There's no critical hit reward for headshotting players, so aim doesn't really matter as much in this game.

Better damage falloff needs to exist: Spas and mp5 are extremely broken even at long distances. Their short range performance is great disregarding the horrible netcode, but their spamming ability at long range is just way too good. A binomial statistical approach shows that spas 12 has a 30% chance of doing 18 damage in a full clip at max range, and mp5 has a 30% chance of doing 29 damage in a full clip at max range, which is just way too much for short range specialist guns. This chance is exponentially higher at medium range, and it's no wonder players are just freely rewarded for using the weapons the wrong way.

Guns are terribly buggy: The game heavily favors overprivileged players; that is, people who have low ping and are already doing well for themselves. If you have too much ping, the guns freak out and barely work if they are rapid fire weapons. Famas used to be my favorite weapon in 2014-2015 but now it doesn't even kill a player in two full clips because of how buggy it is. I would even consider the gun to be one of the best in the game in the right hands but so long as these issues aren't resolved most players will never get to experience it. Spas is relatively unaffected (if fired slightly slower) and pretty much makes the imbalance problem worse. Also, underprivileged (high ping players) are really annoying to deal with because unless you're a rushing player you're going to take too much damage from them even if you're way out of sight if they're the one running towards you, and so most players have resorted to rushing to kill helpless players.

Kill/death stats and ranks are a terrible model for shooters: Pretty much what is said. Fortoresse has devolved into this mindless clusterfuck of players considered pro in the community who just run into groups of people, plant a bomb/spas and then run away with no consequence, netting them lots of kills. Also, since the cooldown on bombs is so little compared to medic and shelter, it's abusable over and over again making sure the victim team never gets a chance to recover against these 'terrorists' who only aim to cause as much damage as possible. Also, so many kills depend on what goes on after a round ends (almost always someone dies after the round ends because of an unfair bomb) and people have this stigma that all players should just stand still and take all the shots and never resist, otherwise you are branded camper and players go by rumors.

Conj is too breakable: We've brought this up many times; conj sucks. Players abuse it along with horrible server netcode to teleport to other players to kill them unfairly. Sometimes I stand still while my enemy just glitches constantly around me, and it's really amusing how people have come to rely on only using conj rather than learning to move. I posted the Fortoresse x Bootcamp video 2 posts before this to show how movement could have worked with well designed maps to make fortoresse a much more interesting experience. Also, conj breaks the entire pace of the game because of campers who just sit half glitched in their conj all day and uzi spam, as well as having impenetrable flags in tight spaces that force players to come into close proximity with spasers making the imbalance problem even worse. In addition, people abuse conj to block off or distract newer players and it doesn't really give them a chance to learn anything.

Perk balances and concepts are terrible: Bombs (especially mines) have lower cooldowns than medic and shelter perks, so all a player has to do is terrorise a team by running in and planting bombs over and over again to inflict as much damage to a team as possible with as little work as possible. Defense powerups should have much longer cooldowns to prevent camping, yes; however bomb times are broken and abused. It needs to reworked to punish players who just want to run into a group just to place a bomb. It should be impossible to use any perks or your weapon while you are sheltered. Bombs should have a certain cooldown to be placed, so that not only will it be more likely for a bomb to be more tactically placed; it will be more likely to be placed somewhere on the ground and not floating midair in some annoying cramped space filled with spasers. Medic and passive perks (rage and defense) are too weak given the amount of damage terrorists can inflict once per 10 seconds at minimum. They need a buff; the bug with the medic perk where you could heal 10 damage after taking a chip of damage even after already healing 10 was skill based, and it forced you to get back into the fray in order to reap the rewards of the medic perk, rather than being forced into a corner all day to heal wounds from terrorism style players.

Immediate "ew" when you enter an in-progress game: There's just conj sprayed all over the place. All over my screen, all over our spawn, both colors. So many bullets come at you through the walls and you need some kind of spray weapon with lots of ammo to get rid of it all quickly. I wonder what gun could possible do this? ...Oh hey, uzi~! The all purpose gun that's all I need to deal damage, dig and fucking glitch everywhere with ease. Also, a game can escalate quickly to this state anyway because of how readily people use conj, so it doesn't matter.

Terrorism: Why is it that a player can just freely walk into a mob, plant a bomb while barely being shot at and still get away with free unintuitive and annoying kills/damage even after death? In every other game, rushing never works unless it's to capture a point, even then their influence should be totally gone after they suicide run. In TF2, rushing doesn't work because if you're for example, an engineer, the enemy can easily destroy your buildings after you die. Even the demoman's stickies vanish if he dies, and the stickies are extremely irritating unless the demo is killed. In Overwatch, the only hero whom with suicide running works after death is junkrat, and that's just to take one player with you into death; not multiple. In Fortoresse, if a single terrorist glitches through your defense and plants a bomb/spams spas at everyone, that's all it takes to dismantle a defense, even if the terrorist dies while doing so. There's no way to destroy their bombs and it's just too easy for an enemy to luck out and cheese their way through conj while eliminating the point of conj as a defense. Furthermore, bombs have a lower cooldown than medic and do way more damage (medic is too weak), so a team can never advance if 2 players on the opposite team decide to resort to terrorism the whole game. The conj gets spammed everywhere as well to block the entire team from progress and doesn't get erased on enemy death, and if you're not a uzi spammer or your weapons are buggy there's nothing you can do about it.

There is no fun in this game: Controversial. The abusers are probably happy already though if fort never changes, because they're being rewarded without doing much work. However, a large majority of players struggle to find the game fun because it's so restrictive and just boring. We need more content that adds a sense of progress to the game, such as levelling up (very minimal rewards for doing so to keep the player satisfied but not that the game is pay-to-win) We also need something that lightens the mood, such as emotions and premium taunts similar to the way TF2 does it (payable; this way atelier could somehow monetize the game). More customization to our characters, guns and visuals would be appreciated as well. We also want solo and multiplayer gamemodes that we can show off on our profiles in friendly competition with other players. Competitive modes in games like these should just be avoided in general; don't add anything that encourages serious competition.

solfn a dit :

So, some of the reasons here you provided are not reasons why Fortoresse is broken, they are just products of the game being broken. It just sounds like you're trying to take a stab at people who are working hard to help the community on the other ends while knowing nothing about it.

Also, by the way, I know about what you really think about me since I caught wind of it a few days ago across servers and that this topic is just here to vent your frustration indirectly at me, so unless you have more content to provide then I do then you should just shut your mouth; there are people working hard over at our end too. I'm really happy you think we're the problem when I tried to help you organize an event and you never turned up so our event failed. Says a lot about your commitment to the game. Before you complain about a power problem or something, you said the event time was fine when we asked, so it's your responsibility.

I'm going to bring in a quote of mine from the suggestions thread. Read well. There are far more than 5 reasons listed. (There are more reasons and arguments; as you so want it, listed after the quote, so I will know if you tldr and ignored everything)

solfn a dit :VoirMasquer

Pretty much the entire code of fortoresse has a big flaw somehow, and it all needs to be reworked.

Movement is too choppy: Server tick rates (player position update rates) are horrible making it easy for people to exploit loopholes in the server lag to literally teleport to players with no chance of them seeing what's going on. This terrible tickrate carries over to TFM physics objects (but not mice) and it would be much better if the mice ticks were the same as fortoresse player ticks, and fortoresse accounted for the potential higher travel rates of players due to launching by bombs (often being faster than the popular CJS)

The guns are uninteresting and boring: If we get a new gun it'll just be something with slightly tweaked stats, like a 6 damage DMR with a slower fire rate than the aug and high accuracy. We want to see something new that makes players use the guns differently, like a gun that has pushback on recoil (the player will visibly be forced backwards when they fire the gun) or a gun that requires a spinup time. We don't want to see anything that can be broken because of ping. On Vertix.io, flamethrowers are stupid because it's so easy to hit players by just walking up to them and getting the advantage by pinging them out, so we don't want these. Some other guns that could be interesting are guns that don't break conj, guns that convert enemy conj to your own conj, guns that lower the enemy's rate of conj/health recovery, artillery that can be aimed over walls along the z plane. Team Fortress 2 has some interesting alternative weapons that encourage players to play differently to get the best results; some ideas could be inspired from there.

Precision system on guns is flawed: None of the weapons are able to properly simulate damage falloff due to distance as is present in other games. This makes damage per second at a large distance very luck based and it gives rise to annoying weapon spam that can sometimes do ridiculous amounts of damage. Combined with the horrible tick rates above, it can cause laggier players to get a free kill because hit boxes are client based and not server based; ie you come across players who walk up to you, you run away and still take so much damage even well after you've gotten out of the way.

Aiming is not promoted in this game: Also, lower accuracy weapons do not promote aiming in this game because the lower the accuracy of a weapon, the more lehway a gun gets to shoot around at enemies because the chance of hitting an enemy at a certain range within the precision arc of a gun's spray is the same no matter where the enemy is within that field. So essentially, all a spaser/mp5 user has to do is point the gun in my general direction and spray and pray, and they're almost always rewarded for it. Better models for spray in other games promote aiming in shotgun type weapons; shotguns can be really powerful only if the player knows how to aim. Too many times I'm resisted by a spaser or mp5 user who just fires the gun in my general direction and gets 10 damage forcing me to flee; there's no aiming involved. There's no critical hit reward for headshotting players, so aim doesn't really matter as much in this game.

Better damage falloff needs to exist: Spas and mp5 are extremely broken even at long distances. Their short range performance is great disregarding the horrible netcode, but their spamming ability at long range is just way too good. A binomial statistical approach shows that spas 12 has a 30% chance of doing 18 damage in a full clip at max range, and mp5 has a 30% chance of doing 29 damage in a full clip at max range, which is just way too much for short range specialist guns. This chance is exponentially higher at medium range, and it's no wonder players are just freely rewarded for using the weapons the wrong way.

Guns are terribly buggy: The game heavily favors overprivileged players; that is, people who have low ping and are already doing well for themselves. If you have too much ping, the guns freak out and barely work if they are rapid fire weapons. Famas used to be my favorite weapon in 2014-2015 but now it doesn't even kill a player in two full clips because of how buggy it is. I would even consider the gun to be one of the best in the game in the right hands but so long as these issues aren't resolved most players will never get to experience it. Spas is relatively unaffected (if fired slightly slower) and pretty much makes the imbalance problem worse. Also, underprivileged (high ping players) are really annoying to deal with because unless you're a rushing player you're going to take too much damage from them even if you're way out of sight if they're the one running towards you, and so most players have resorted to rushing to kill helpless players.

Kill/death stats and ranks are a terrible model for shooters: Pretty much what is said. Fortoresse has devolved into this mindless clusterfuck of players considered pro in the community who just run into groups of people, plant a bomb/spas and then run away with no consequence, netting them lots of kills. Also, since the cooldown on bombs is so little compared to medic and shelter, it's abusable over and over again making sure the victim team never gets a chance to recover against these 'terrorists' who only aim to cause as much damage as possible. Also, so many kills depend on what goes on after a round ends (almost always someone dies after the round ends because of an unfair bomb) and people have this stigma that all players should just stand still and take all the shots and never resist, otherwise you are branded camper and players go by rumors.

Conj is too breakable: We've brought this up many times; conj sucks. Players abuse it along with horrible server netcode to teleport to other players to kill them unfairly. Sometimes I stand still while my enemy just glitches constantly around me, and it's really amusing how people have come to rely on only using conj rather than learning to move. I posted the Fortoresse x Bootcamp video 2 posts before this to show how movement could have worked with well designed maps to make fortoresse a much more interesting experience. Also, conj breaks the entire pace of the game because of campers who just sit half glitched in their conj all day and uzi spam, as well as having impenetrable flags in tight spaces that force players to come into close proximity with spasers making the imbalance problem even worse. In addition, people abuse conj to block off or distract newer players and it doesn't really give them a chance to learn anything.

Perk balances and concepts are terrible: Bombs (especially mines) have lower cooldowns than medic and shelter perks, so all a player has to do is terrorise a team by running in and planting bombs over and over again to inflict as much damage to a team as possible with as little work as possible. Defense powerups should have much longer cooldowns to prevent camping, yes; however bomb times are broken and abused. It needs to reworked to punish players who just want to run into a group just to place a bomb. It should be impossible to use any perks or your weapon while you are sheltered. Bombs should have a certain cooldown to be placed, so that not only will it be more likely for a bomb to be more tactically placed; it will be more likely to be placed somewhere on the ground and not floating midair in some annoying cramped space filled with spasers. Medic and passive perks (rage and defense) are too weak given the amount of damage terrorists can inflict once per 10 seconds at minimum. They need a buff; the bug with the medic perk where you could heal 10 damage after taking a chip of damage even after already healing 10 was skill based, and it forced you to get back into the fray in order to reap the rewards of the medic perk, rather than being forced into a corner all day to heal wounds from terrorism style players.

Immediate "ew" when you enter an in-progress game: There's just conj sprayed all over the place. All over my screen, all over our spawn, both colors. So many bullets come at you through the walls and you need some kind of spray weapon with lots of ammo to get rid of it all quickly. I wonder what gun could possible do this? ...Oh hey, uzi~! The all purpose gun that's all I need to deal damage, dig and fucking glitch everywhere with ease. Also, a game can escalate quickly to this state anyway because of how readily people use conj, so it doesn't matter.

Terrorism: Why is it that a player can just freely walk into a mob, plant a bomb while barely being shot at and still get away with free unintuitive and annoying kills/damage even after death? In every other game, rushing never works unless it's to capture a point, even then their influence should be totally gone after they suicide run. In TF2, rushing doesn't work because if you're for example, an engineer, the enemy can easily destroy your buildings after you die. Even the demoman's stickies vanish if he dies, and the stickies are extremely irritating unless the demo is killed. In Overwatch, the only hero whom with suicide running works after death is junkrat, and that's just to take one player with you into death; not multiple. In Fortoresse, if a single terrorist glitches through your defense and plants a bomb/spams spas at everyone, that's all it takes to dismantle a defense, even if the terrorist dies while doing so. There's no way to destroy their bombs and it's just too easy for an enemy to luck out and cheese their way through conj while eliminating the point of conj as a defense. Furthermore, bombs have a lower cooldown than medic and do way more damage (medic is too weak), so a team can never advance if 2 players on the opposite team decide to resort to terrorism the whole game. The conj gets spammed everywhere as well to block the entire team from progress and doesn't get erased on enemy death, and if you're not a uzi spammer or your weapons are buggy there's nothing you can do about it.

There is no fun in this game: Controversial. The abusers are probably happy already though if fort never changes, because they're being rewarded without doing much work. However, a large majority of players struggle to find the game fun because it's so restrictive and just boring. We need more content that adds a sense of progress to the game, such as levelling up (very minimal rewards for doing so to keep the player satisfied but not that the game is pay-to-win) We also need something that lightens the mood, such as emotions and premium taunts similar to the way TF2 does it (payable; this way atelier could somehow monetize the game). More customization to our characters, guns and visuals would be appreciated as well. We also want solo and multiplayer gamemodes that we can show off on our profiles in friendly competition with other players. Competitive modes in games like these should just be avoided in general; don't add anything that encourages serious competition.

Now to address your points:
1) Servers are too different - This is not a reason why Fortoresse is broken. Yes, because servers are so different, having all servers access to EN screwed everything up. Given, there were already people moving into EN from other servers for easy kills before the update, except now it's around the clock. There is no racism involved here, but foreigners should not be able to move between servers for a reason. We are teaching our players with our own cultures and what is deemed moral in one place may be seen differently in another. Having foreigners forced into our servers conveying totally different morals just ruined the spirit of the rooms.

2) Toxicity - Again, this is not a reason Fortoresse is broken. There are so many things wrong with the balance of the game that people have gotten this way. Actually, this pretty much happens in all other gun games just not to this extent that we've seen.

3) Underpowered weapons - I'm happy you recognize this particular problem rather than the spas being broken. Yes, people need to die faster. The reason for this is that without dying faster people can just easily run away from fights and camp with ridiculous amounts of conj spam until their HP is back up, then just spam you. I don't want to use an automatic weapon because it gets outclassed by unskilled spas rush because the damage of the shotgun is just way too high to ever compete with. People must die faster.
Also, if you're so concerned about us not being able to compete with your spas, then why do your spasers get angry when we use another weapon to defeat them and not encourage us to keep using it? Sounds like you're not doing a good enough job telling your community to understand us better.

4) Way too glitchy - So you concede that when I get annoyed over a glitcher hitting me is not just me raging over nothing? Actually, I've had countless numbers of spasers complain at me for putting up shelter when they approach because running away will get me killed anyway. Plus, they have the highest DPS in the game so there's no point competing up close for damage, that's just what they want. I've put up a video about why rushing is so successful; and yes, because of ping differences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeKLsFtbleU
Just today I encountered an aug user who switched to spas the moment they were in trouble then started glitching around me madly abusing every possible aspect of the game that's broken while I just stood still. So basically, I just left; why bother? It's not like I'd be able to compete with them unless I was a glitcher who mained spas... oh wait.


5) Different worlds - This is a repeat point. I won't respond to this one.

---

I'd like to present some more evidence based on our Fortoresse rally.
We expected that the game would go much faster and people would die faster making the game far less campy and so the guns would matter a lot less. What we got instead was too many bombs, and the games went way slower, so it was virtually impossible for the attacking team to capture the flag at all. Watch my video if you don't believe me and/or you weren't there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-McY_bd4CSg

So what's the issue?
1) Bombs prevent anyone from going in because they just blow up and kill you immediately so everyone is too scared to approach, no wonder you consider EN players campy maybe because you abuse bombs and spas as you claim a little too much?

2) Too much conj. This prevents anyone who uses a slow firing weapon or no bombs from ever going in, so snipers like me are excluded from the action. Also, when you join a room for the first time, there's an absurd amount of conj on your screen that really isn't there so the match is unplayable anyway.

3) Spawn distances from the objective. This means that even if you kill the people in the flag there are too many people in the room so others will take over the defense so the flag will never be captured. Also, if they are rushers or terrorists they will just sit in the flag and plant bombs and/or spam conj so they live as long as possible.

---

If you want to sound even slightly credible, give me something new and innovative that can:
1) Stop players from abusing conj, thus cleaning up all the glitches, spawn camps and campers.
2) Balance out the guns so that the type of gun doesn't matter as much, only the skill required to secure the kill.
3) Nerf bombs. This is the main problem when trying to capture the objective and why people choose to camp instead of go for the objective.
4) Do something about flags. Holding the flag or capturing the flag requires you to be inside the flag zone yet the flag zone is so small that it favors close-up weapons i.e. spas, so nobody will go into the flag out of fear of getting spased.
5) Convince other people to play this game again.

Thanks

1 a dit :

This one is hard. Mostly revolves around getting Conj fixed or changed, since you can't change everyone's mind only by willing to. Campers and Spawn Camps come into play most of the time because of some sort of "I'm not dying for free out there" way of thinking. They want to hit but to not be hit at the same time, and that doesn't quite fit Fortoresse itself. So, fixing Conj and making guns relevant to actually conj-digging would be a kind of a solution(?).

2 a dit :

The DPS isn't even close, if you consider the highest DPS gun and the lowest one. Balancing the damage (But not too much) would be the first step. Then, they would need to make each gun "unique" again. Most prefer using M4 because Famas these days is either too buggy or is just not worth it considering the damage it does compared to other autos. Kinda a lot of MP5 players moved to Spas because it's only "a variant" in the MP5 usual aggro playstyle that is more effective than the MP5 itself. Getting everything in the same line of power, without making some guns "the same", would be the first step. Then, it's up to community to using the weapons in different ways. I don't remember what guy used Rage+M60, but even being a meme itself, it turned out to be effective when he defends well against rushing players.

3 a dit :

Before... a dit :VoirMasquer

And about the mines... Quite a lot of suggestions out there. Some say that it would be better for the trigger range to be greatly reduced, but the blast range itself should stay the same... Others say that the range itself should be lowered, or there should be some kind of "damage variant", considering that the person in the middle of the blast range of a mine gets damaged the same as someone right in the edge of the range... Or the damage itself should be lowered, so Mine+C4 isn't a insta-kill anymore if you're standing or such.

4 a dit :

Making the flag range bigger would make "everyone" happy. If you look at other "King of the Hill" type of games (Considering our Capture the Flag isn't even a proper CtF map), the ranges tend to be huge (Just look at BF4, really). They make that exactly so it's so goddamn wide opened that you need to think before getting in there, because you can get flanked quite hard. At the same time, if the players decide to conquer the key spots and then moving to the zone itself, it becomes a lot easier. Doing that would be good.to almost any map, considering most are 1-way battles (Not considering the soldat battles that tend to happen right under the zone).

5 a dit :

Just fix it. Really. Some of them even come back to see if something new popped up, most of the times being a patch fix that doesn't even fix anything at all.

+supergrunt a dit :

No "capture the flag" isn't a real capture the flag, no object to steal in a base... the gametype is closer to one-sided territories you can see in Halo.

The damage variant is something in Forteresse and it's the best way to nerf explosions, the question is : why explosions aren't like that since the beginnng when Forteresse use that system ? Remember explosions used to be (almost) instant kill.

Brandonnst a dit :

Perks were pretty unbalanced since... Ever.

The mode "Capture the Flag" in Fort is something between King of the Hill mode and Counter-Strike's Bomb Defusal mode. It's just "not right" for the name it uses, you know.

Brandonnst a dit :

Spoiler

"Spas is relatively unaffected (if fired slightly slower) and pretty much makes the imbalance problem worse."

I can agree and disagree with that. Unless the enemy is a Soldat and isn't firing, any higher ping could make the Spas player end up nullifying his own shots. That happens alot, not only with me, but with other random guys with other weapons too. And since it's a "Nuke" weapon (16 damage per shot, 6 shot per clip), missing 2 shots can kill the "momentum" that you get if you manage to get close to a enemy without they having time to react.

Yeah, everyone needs to die faster. I'm sick too of players using M4A1s and just not being rewarded for it. I can use it, of course, but not even close to doing the 60 damage the clip suggests. That 60 damage, too, sounds low, considering there are matches where you have 6 alive enemies. The "Nuke" potential being reserved only for MP5, UMP, Spas and M40 just kills the other automatics (Maybe G36C could work inside there, but not sure).

Snipers should penetrate more layers than just 1. That's something I did actually suggest in the BR section, I think. Yeah, agreed with that. But if they really wanted to make the game more "fast-paced" by buffing that Spas 12, they should at least buff the M40 not in a direct sense, but mostly adding the power it needs for those pesky maps like Jungle, where conj is either spread all out in the map or in thick defenses in their own spawn point. Conj is weak at 99% of the time, but when it comes to countering M40s, it ends up being quite strong. That doesn't sound even a little bit right.

The reason I said Toxicity, Solfn, comes more to affect BR server than any other. It is, kinda of, the motive BR server doesn't has any new player or any new/good player. There's that guy, Invisible, that thinks he can steal people's accounts without being punished. In Fortoresse, he is quite right. If I'm not wrong, 4 or 5 accounts already, and those 4 or 5 guys just ended up never playing again. That's not a high number, but try being a newbie in a BR room. I mean, just try. You'll end up getting killed by a half-glitcher and not killing anyone because there's always a shelter-tank in the front of the enemy teams, most time being a bomber who tries to plant a mine right under you. It's just impossible.

There are 2 ends at the "Spas" kind of player. The ones that bug, and the ones that don't bug and end up getting killed by the buggers. Personally I hate buggers. Most time I only bug for mobility, and when I see a half-glitcher, just end up turning away and ignoring that it was there, because killing it would be so difficult (Considering that, if the Uzi was used, he would just rush and catch me without the primary in hands) that isn't even worth dying for. What amazes me is that, in BR, there is that culture of "whoever bugs better is the best". After that one, I'm getting ready to move to Canada or such, because holy cow...

About the 1st point, I think you got the right intention of it. I didn't explain well enough, but props to you to seeing that.

And about the mines... Quite a lot of suggestions out there. Some say that it would be better for the trigger range to be greatly reduced, but the blast range itself should stay the same... Others say that the range itself should be lowered, or there should be some kind of "damage variant", considering that the person in the middle of the blast range of a mine gets damaged the same as someone right in the edge of the range... Or the damage itself should be lowered, so Mine+C4 isn't a insta-kill anymore if you're standing or such.

Ok. Let's try:

1 a dit :VoirMasquer

This one is hard. Mostly revolves around getting Conj fixed or changed, since you can't change everyone's mind only by willing to. Campers and Spawn Camps come into play most of the time because of some sort of "I'm not dying for free out there" way of thinking. They want to hit but to not be hit at the same time, and that doesn't quite fit Fortoresse itself. So, fixing Conj and making guns relevant to actually conj-digging would be a kind of a solution(?).

2 a dit :VoirMasquer

The DPS isn't even close, if you consider the highest DPS gun and the lowest one. Balancing the damage (But not too much) would be the first step. Then, they would need to make each gun "unique" again. Most prefer using M4 because Famas these days is either too buggy or is just not worth it considering the damage it does compared to other autos. Kinda a lot of MP5 players moved to Spas because it's only "a variant" in the MP5 usual aggro playstyle that is more effective than the MP5 itself. Getting everything in the same line of power, without making some guns "the same", would be the first step. Then, it's up to community to using the weapons in different ways. I don't remember what guy used Rage+M60, but even being a meme itself, it turned out to be effective when he defends well against rushing players.

3 a dit :VoirMasquer

Before... a dit :VoirMasquer

And about the mines... Quite a lot of suggestions out there. Some say that it would be better for the trigger range to be greatly reduced, but the blast range itself should stay the same... Others say that the range itself should be lowered, or there should be some kind of "damage variant", considering that the person in the middle of the blast range of a mine gets damaged the same as someone right in the edge of the range... Or the damage itself should be lowered, so Mine+C4 isn't a insta-kill anymore if you're standing or such.

4 a dit :VoirMasquer

Making the flag range bigger would make "everyone" happy. If you look at other "King of the Hill" type of games (Considering our Capture the Flag isn't even a proper CtF map), the ranges tend to be huge (Just look at BF4, really). They make that exactly so it's so goddamn wide opened that you need to think before getting in there, because you can get flanked quite hard. At the same time, if the players decide to conquer the key spots and then moving to the zone itself, it becomes a lot easier. Doing that would be good.to almost any map, considering most are 1-way battles (Not considering the soldat battles that tend to happen right under the zone).

5 a dit :VoirMasquer

Just fix it. Really. Some of them even come back to see if something new popped up, most of the times being a patch fix that doesn't even fix anything at all.

Also, thanks for taking your time to answer this, even if you think it was only created to hit you. I kinda of apologize if that came into your mind, was not the intention.

solfn a dit :

Brandonnst a dit :VoirMasquer

Spoiler

"Spas is relatively unaffected (if fired slightly slower) and pretty much makes the imbalance problem worse."

I can agree and disagree with that. Unless the enemy is a Soldat and isn't firing, any higher ping could make the Spas player end up nullifying his own shots. That happens alot, not only with me, but with other random guys with other weapons too. And since it's a "Nuke" weapon (16 damage per shot, 6 shot per clip), missing 2 shots can kill the "momentum" that you get if you manage to get close to a enemy without they having time to react.

Yeah, everyone needs to die faster. I'm sick too of players using M4A1s and just not being rewarded for it. I can use it, of course, but not even close to doing the 60 damage the clip suggests. That 60 damage, too, sounds low, considering there are matches where you have 6 alive enemies. The "Nuke" potential being reserved only for MP5, UMP, Spas and M40 just kills the other automatics (Maybe G36C could work inside there, but not sure).

Snipers should penetrate more layers than just 1. That's something I did actually suggest in the BR section, I think. Yeah, agreed with that. But if they really wanted to make the game more "fast-paced" by buffing that Spas 12, they should at least buff the M40 not in a direct sense, but mostly adding the power it needs for those pesky maps like Jungle, where conj is either spread all out in the map or in thick defenses in their own spawn point. Conj is weak at 99% of the time, but when it comes to countering M40s, it ends up being quite strong. That doesn't sound even a little bit right.

The reason I said Toxicity, Solfn, comes more to affect BR server than any other. It is, kinda of, the motive BR server doesn't has any new player or any new/good player. There's that guy, Invisible, that thinks he can steal people's accounts without being punished. In Fortoresse, he is quite right. If I'm not wrong, 4 or 5 accounts already, and those 4 or 5 guys just ended up never playing again. That's not a high number, but try being a newbie in a BR room. I mean, just try. You'll end up getting killed by a half-glitcher and not killing anyone because there's always a shelter-tank in the front of the enemy teams, most time being a bomber who tries to plant a mine right under you. It's just impossible.

There are 2 ends at the "Spas" kind of player. The ones that bug, and the ones that don't bug and end up getting killed by the buggers. Personally I hate buggers. Most time I only bug for mobility, and when I see a half-glitcher, just end up turning away and ignoring that it was there, because killing it would be so difficult (Considering that, if the Uzi was used, he would just rush and catch me without the primary in hands) that isn't even worth dying for. What amazes me is that, in BR, there is that culture of "whoever bugs better is the best". After that one, I'm getting ready to move to Canada or such, because holy cow...

About the 1st point, I think you got the right intention of it. I didn't explain well enough, but props to you to seeing that.

And about the mines... Quite a lot of suggestions out there. Some say that it would be better for the trigger range to be greatly reduced, but the blast range itself should stay the same... Others say that the range itself should be lowered, or there should be some kind of "damage variant", considering that the person in the middle of the blast range of a mine gets damaged the same as someone right in the edge of the range... Or the damage itself should be lowered, so Mine+C4 isn't a insta-kill anymore if you're standing or such.

Ok. Let's try:

1 a dit :VoirMasquer

This one is hard. Mostly revolves around getting Conj fixed or changed, since you can't change everyone's mind only by willing to. Campers and Spawn Camps come into play most of the time because of some sort of "I'm not dying for free out there" way of thinking. They want to hit but to not be hit at the same time, and that doesn't quite fit Fortoresse itself. So, fixing Conj and making guns relevant to actually conj-digging would be a kind of a solution(?).

2 a dit :VoirMasquer

The DPS isn't even close, if you consider the highest DPS gun and the lowest one. Balancing the damage (But not too much) would be the first step. Then, they would need to make each gun "unique" again. Most prefer using M4 because Famas these days is either too buggy or is just not worth it considering the damage it does compared to other autos. Kinda a lot of MP5 players moved to Spas because it's only "a variant" in the MP5 usual aggro playstyle that is more effective than the MP5 itself. Getting everything in the same line of power, without making some guns "the same", would be the first step. Then, it's up to community to using the weapons in different ways. I don't remember what guy used Rage+M60, but even being a meme itself, it turned out to be effective when he defends well against rushing players.

3 a dit :VoirMasquer

Before... a dit :VoirMasquer

And about the mines... Quite a lot of suggestions out there. Some say that it would be better for the trigger range to be greatly reduced, but the blast range itself should stay the same... Others say that the range itself should be lowered, or there should be some kind of "damage variant", considering that the person in the middle of the blast range of a mine gets damaged the same as someone right in the edge of the range... Or the damage itself should be lowered, so Mine+C4 isn't a insta-kill anymore if you're standing or such.

4 a dit :VoirMasquer

Making the flag range bigger would make "everyone" happy. If you look at other "King of the Hill" type of games (Considering our Capture the Flag isn't even a proper CtF map), the ranges tend to be huge (Just look at BF4, really). They make that exactly so it's so goddamn wide opened that you need to think before getting in there, because you can get flanked quite hard. At the same time, if the players decide to conquer the key spots and then moving to the zone itself, it becomes a lot easier. Doing that would be good.to almost any map, considering most are 1-way battles (Not considering the soldat battles that tend to happen right under the zone).

5 a dit :VoirMasquer

Just fix it. Really. Some of them even come back to see if something new popped up, most of the times being a patch fix that doesn't even fix anything at all.

Also, thanks for taking your time to answer this, even if you think it was only created to hit you. I kinda of apologize if that came into your mind, was not the intention.

I will add my own contributions now since you have shown to me that you're willing to put in a detailed response:

The meaning of that first line is that because the spas fires relatively slow anyway (4th slowest in the game), you don't have to fire it much slower to counteract the effect of the bugs as you do with most of the other weapons. So basically it's almost completely unaffected and so spas players get free handicaps against all other players which they don't need.

It's a little hard to explain, but people prefer the weapons that you call 'nuke' weapons, and that's why they're broken. If you were to plot the average damage per second of each gun for every moment in time, you would see how people would use the abused guns because the massive spike upwards in average damage per second makes them want to.

I had a video of a sniper that penetrated 2 layers and I really liked using it because it was such a unique weapon, unfortunately I had to remove it because it had some unintended side effects.

The invisible guy I made a video on because he glitch killed me (using shots that appeared when he wasn't even visible) while camping the entire time the rest of the round and claimed he had no time for noobs since he had about 7 times more kills than I, so wouldn't fight me and wouldn't ever leave his camp hole. So basically he's one of your most toxic players.

---

Now I want to show you the suggestions I came up with for those major fixes:
1) Remove conj and replace it with a mechanic in which the speed of the player can be better predicted by the server (such as a grappling hook) so people never bug around crazily. Unfortunately, this is the only good fix I could see. A conj-like perk such as the worms girder could replace it.
2) Lower the HP of players to 20. Some guns will need to be nerfed like the current shotgun and sniper and some of the pistols, otherwise most of the other weapons can remain the same. This way players will die fast.
3) Make bombs destroyable. The reason they're so annoying is that even if you disarm them the cooldown of both bomb types are faster than the health perk and shelter perk so bomb abusers will just put them back where they were straight away and they'll litter the flag permanently. If bombs are destroyable then they'll be better suited to surprise attacks like they were intended to, or even distraction; and we won't have to waste our perks destroying them in futility.
4) The flag and map size must expand (however, may not be necessary if grappling hooks exist instead of conj). It's too easy for people to sit in the flag forever so it never gets captured since the spawn distances are too close to the flag. Also, we need more room to fight without it being advantageous for shotguns and bombers only.
5) Various suggestions such as solo gamemodes, allowing titles to carry across games, monetization etc.

Brandonnst a dit :

I actually found out a new bug, but I can't re-do it. I actually shot, did damage, but didn't consume ammo. That was using a M40. Seems like I switched when the shot fired but before the animation itself happened, so it looked like I was shooting with a Uzi. Switching back to M40 would still show that 7/4, so... Guess shouldn't teach other players to do it, but if even I can't repeat it, I doubt others can, even on purpose.

+supergrunt a dit :

The conjuration shouldn't disappears... I guess you have a new name for the game without conjuration ? Almost like Halo without shields, it's here since the very beginning + the Forteresse module and his shotgun fire was fine I guess, send more pellets (double) but they are less powerful (only 1)

I don't have problem with weapons being slightly different from another (the Famas is just another M4 A1, the Steyr Aug is another AK 47, the UMP 45 is another MP5... low tier Vs. high tier, that system is here since... at least the 90's, here you have multiple weapons to use) .

Brandonnst a dit :VoirMasquer

I actually found out a new bug, but I can't re-do it. I actually shot, did damage, but didn't consume ammo. That was using a M40. Seems like I switched when the shot fired but before the animation itself happened, so it looked like I was shooting with a Uzi. Switching back to M40 would still show that 7/4, so... Guess shouldn't teach other players to do it, but if even I can't repeat it, I doubt others can, even on purpose.

But you never tried to waste all shots, I expect a phantom bullet at the end...

gamerdoof a dit :

As Solfn said
Lag still wins...

solfn a dit :

I went into a room today and got a 6 killstreak with my an 94 against a large group of enemies solo while defending the flag (no healing). I was doing amazing with the gun.

Everything changed when the spas nation attacked.



Tbh the state of this game is like it is in TF2 right now.

Something came to mind, maybe conj can be kept except all players can go through it, so just get rid of its ability to have players stand on it. Then, a mechanic with a more predictable path can substitute as the main method of movement.