millosaf a dit :

People usually considered SPAS as an easy weapon to use, but it's not true!

It's easy to use, close the gap and spam your mouse, doesn't mean it's easy to do something good for your team.

And the M40 is more broken than a SPAS... you just need to aim, effective at any range, good at the run and gun style. I never liked aggro M40 that are more annoying than a SPAS.

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Something sure... you can't decrease the SPAS 12's DPS without hurting the weapon too bad but you can't increase the firerate too (to give the same DPS, weak but faster) .

Just give the weapon his damn old clip size.

Why are we talking about the spas-12 here?
Below are all the arguments for an update that balances out the spas12, but this thread is not about updates.

If you need to know, the first issue is that it deals too much damage instantaneously as well as the m40, especially with the problem of conj. I played a player that lags like crazy so it's impossible to avoid a direct hit from his spas, then he retreats back into his hole. Laggy players and glitchers have taken advantage of the damage from the spas and m40 to use this strategy and cannot be defeated except by the same weapon and strategy, forcing other players to adopt the style. It takes no skill; players just glitch until they get lucky and end up in the perfect spot to hit a player.

The second issue is the inaccuracy of the weapon. It's only required about 19 degrees of the accuracy to hit a player. This means that the spas 12 user has 60-19 = 41 degrees of freedom to point their weapon approximately at the player and still get the same damage on average. So the weapon is spammable, since the spas12 user does not even have to exactly aim at their target to get results [40 degrees is huge]. Another luck factor, because three of the four shots still have a chance of hitting the player at max range, and chances are this will happen if the player spams the gun several times.

In terms of spammability, its actually possible to mathematically prove that the Mp5 is more broken than spas in this area. So the spamming problem is even worse with mp5 users. They don't need to aim, and have well over 95% chance of doing major damage to the enemy by just clicking.
There is a stigma called W+M1 in team fortress 2, where the player is just oblivious to anything else and just only presses the W [to go forward] and Mouse 1 [to shoot]. This also exists in fortoresse. I could get a massive killstreak by just walking into players and firing. I have a screenshot to go with it to prove it.


The DPS must go down. Something needs to be done about the spammability of the weapon too, spas should be incredibly weak at long range; not still as competitive as over 50% of weapons are at max range. Play any other game with a shotgun, the guns are incredibly powerful at short range and require a lot of skill to get the meat shots, but they're terrible at long range. The snipers are generally weak as well and have no damage falloff, but require skill because they must target the head and are rewarded for being patient and accurate.

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If you are going to defend your weapon, be polite about it and try to support your answer with some evidence. Sure, I understand some spas 12 players do have some skill [Even if that's the only weapon they use..], but that's only when they know how to get all of the meat shots that do full damage. The players that are considered "good" abuse all the broken parts of the weapon; they're getting an unfair advantage and getting considered pro for it.

solfn a dit :

Why are we talking about the spas-12 here?
Below are all the arguments for an update that balances out the spas12, but this thread is not about updates.

If you need to know, the first issue is that it deals too much damage instantaneously as well as the m40, especially with the problem of conj. I played a player that lags like crazy so it's impossible to avoid a direct hit from his spas, then he retreats back into his hole. Laggy players and glitchers have taken advantage of the damage from the spas and m40 to use this strategy and cannot be defeated except by the same weapon and strategy, forcing other players to adopt the style. It takes no skill; players just glitch until they get lucky and end up in the perfect spot to hit a player.

The second issue is the inaccuracy of the weapon. It's only required about 19 degrees of the accuracy to hit a player. This means that the spas 12 user has 60-19 = 41 degrees of freedom to point their weapon approximately at the player and still get the same damage on average. So the weapon is spammable, since the spas12 user does not even have to exactly aim at their target to get results [40 degrees is huge]. Another luck factor, because three of the four shots still have a chance of hitting the player at max range, and chances are this will happen if the player spams the gun several times.

In terms of spammability, its actually possible to mathematically prove that the Mp5 is more broken than spas in this area. So the spamming problem is even worse with mp5 users. They don't need to aim, and have well over 95% chance of doing major damage to the enemy by just clicking.
There is a stigma called W+M1 in team fortress 2, where the player is just oblivious to anything else and just only presses the W [to go forward] and Mouse 1 [to shoot]. This also exists in fortoresse. I could get a massive killstreak by just walking into players and firing. I have a screenshot to go with it to prove it.

Spoiler

The DPS must go down. Something needs to be done about the spammability of the weapon too, spas should be incredibly weak at long range; not still as competitive as over 50% of weapons are at max range. Play any other game with a shotgun, the guns are incredibly powerful at short range and require a lot of skill to get the meat shots, but they're terrible at long range. The snipers are generally weak as well and have no damage falloff, but require skill because they must target the head and are rewarded for being patient and accurate.

=========================

If you are going to defend your weapon, be polite about it and try to support your answer with some evidence. Sure, I understand some spas 12 players do have some skill [Even if that's the only weapon they use..], but that's only when they know how to get all of the meat shots that do full damage. The players that are considered "good" abuse all the broken parts of the weapon; they're getting an unfair advantage and getting considered pro for it.

Lel John Cena...

solfn a dit :

Why are we talking about the spas-12 here?

http://atelier801.com/topic?f=8&t=771992&p=1

Let's go !

Fewfre a dit :

@People mentioning finding mods: It is a small game so finding (enough) good mods would be problematic, but having at least some mods could go a long way towards making the game better. I don't think Solfn is aiming this to be a political "this will fix everything!" statement, but rather that there is a noticeable problem, and since the current system is not geared to address it, he's offering the first step towards a solution (if not a perfect one). And besides, currently if you tell most people you will report them they laugh at you since they know it's pointless since there are never any mods. So instead of an empty police station with the occasional visiting law enforcer, having it filled with even 1-2 people could give hackers some pause.

Edit: To bad polls cannot be edited, this would have been a great use of one :)

C'MON YES SOLFN YESSSSSSSSSSSS

millosaf a dit :

Give some love to SPAS users too!! People usually considered SPAS as an easy weapon to use, but it's not true! It actually difficult to get the hang of SPAS. Yes, one can randomly shoot without having to aim and still does a lot of damages on its opponent, but so are the other weapons, such as Mp5, M60, AUG!
Many people also call SPAS users no-talents and no-skills, and this is, of course, not true also. SPAS requires as much skills as Snipers do to become proficient at it, perhaps even more depends on situations. People are blinded to see these skills and talents from users behind the SPAS. Try to give a SPAS to a noob, you wil noticed how useless and harmless SPAS actaully is.
So next time if you ever encounter an aggressive or annoying SPAS user, don't forcus on how much it takes away your health points, but instead, forcus on their speed, movements, and conjure skills. You will be amazed of how pro SPAS users actaully are!

Players of same level of skill and tech can beat each other if one uses spas and the other doesn't it is all a matter if you are generally better than the spas user. However even then its still hard to counter. Those aspects counter spas like speed conj skills, and a lot of focus on movements is more than what you even have to do with other guns its an op gun! And don't get me wrong mp5 is just as broken and overused so is sniper.

Oh. The team killing mines.
Right, sometimes I get killed by my own team's mines. Looks like they're exploiting bugs too now. ._.

I have found a solution that will fix everything wrong with the game, and it basically revolves around one simple change. I will propose it later in the forum. Feel free to discuss in-game in the meantime

/support It should have mods cause I did not know that and its not fair to shoot through all walls

Nicely organized thread, I hope that Fortoresse gets the staff it needs soon

I wonder if the shooting through walls hack is that thing I tried with someone, that was a hack that move the spot for bullets come (like multiple blocks away) ... must be something like that.

By the way, speaking of team killing mines, I think this is the answer for friendly mines killing you.

I def support this! The Fort community at least deserves an explanation, so be it if the game is abandoned.

+supergrunt a dit :

I wonder if the shooting through walls hack is that thing I tried with someone, that was a hack that move the spot for bullets come (like multiple blocks away) ... must be something like that.

By the way, speaking of team killing mines, I think this is the answer for friendly mines killing you.

No, it's not the same one.

it would be nice if they opened mod applications specifically for fortoresse players