|Top 5 motives Fortoresse is broken...|
Just make your top 5 motives that justify why Fortoresse is where it is right now. Low amount of players, glitchy, that stuff.
PS. Please, don't just "say" it. Argue, so others can understand better your point of view.
Okay, so these are my 5 motives:
Why, you ask? Well, let's make an overall look.
EN server is filled up with campers. BR server is filled up with rushers, "typical NA", CSGO casters would say. ES server is filled with salt. TR server is even more filled with salt, and they are the ones that use the most some exploits that shouldn't even be in the game. The servers are just too far away one from the other, and that I can say by looking at different types of average players.
EN spas players die because they don't rush at all. They play too passive for their own good.
BR spas players don't die most of the times because they rush in such a hardcore way it becomes hard to hold.
ES spas players always complain about something. Either their mouse got stuck, or keyboard stopped working, something around that.
TR spas players always end up teleporting, since they bug so hard that their character models end up being bugged for the rest of the match.
Some of those "Islands" are good for some players. BR spas players are top-notch, while EN m40 players can beat them, and some TR MP5 players can beat both and vice-versa. But mostly, it ends up destroying a server by itself. BR has a rush culture, while EN has a camp culture, ES has a salt culture and TR has a bug culture. It just ends up burrowing the server 6 feet underground by itself.
This one is pretty obvious.
Old players tend to become salty. Why? Even I don't know, really. But that is just the start of the effect. It kills "new players", because the community is just stuck in a hole and it doesn't want to get out of there. It is also linked to the first motive. Why?
Everyone thinks BR is just mindless spas, EN is just camping fiesta, ES is just "noob noob noob" and TR is just... So glitchy that there isn't even an correct opinion about it.
I'm fine with the Spas the way it is. It makes the game more fast-paced, when it comes most to skill. But it's really unfair to see other weapons not being able to step up, being more of slow-paced weapons than anything else. Every single weapon should have those 2 potentials, and, if it doesn't have 1, then the other should not be such a problem for everyone.
The autos are broken, too. If that helps, there's not a weapon that can't kill the other, but the % is just way too low because they are in different growth trees.
This one is one of the actual problems of the game. The glitches are just too broken, you see. If a player has low enough ping, he can glitch and finish the glitch before his animation, ending up in some free-shots and, in some cases, free-kills.
The hitbox is bugged, too. It favors autos most of the time, and CQC weapons get the worst part of it. I'm not talking about M40 since it's more aim variable, but that's another one of the main problem.
And then there is those hackers. So hard to find a domination room without at least 1 of those creeps, isn't it?
This is a really really big problem Fortoresse has.
If a player can't kill Spas, it'll just start spreading out to everyone that the weapon is just "unkillable", that stuff, and since most of those new players don't have their minds made, they just end up following blindly that kind of thing. Same goes for any single weapon there is in the Armory, and some perk combos, of course ("Rage+Spas=Cancer").
It's not because you can't kill a Spas that they are immortals, same goes for M40, it's not because they can hit you that they are wallhackers, that kind of stuff.
I only have one reason: the game isn't advertised like Transformice.
If Fortoresse was shown on the screen when you visited transformice.com, more players might click on it and join the community. If Fortoresse had more players, then the admins might think it's worth their time to fix the game.
Both of these^^
There's also the "instant 'ew'" (quote Solfn), when someone steps into a room and there's either bottomfeeding, camping, or something that makes the room terrible. Another thing is that players have plenty of suggestions, but some of them aren't good, or nothing is carried out by the suggestion. Atelier may just allow the game to die, but some of us want to keep it breathing, so it needs attention. Not just updates, but moderation because of hacks. I really want to see a "new" Fortoresse; a balanced, updated, enjoyable Fortoresse. Finally, some newer players get beaten a lot by some of the veterans of Fortoresse (pun pun pun) so they quit, because they think "oh I'll just keep dying" or "I'll never be good" (I know this, I was one of them). As mentioned, some salt and toxicity doesn't exactly benefit the newer players, so the influx of players is low. It'll always be the same people playing. And when they quit, RIP Fortoresse.
So, some of the reasons here you provided are not reasons why Fortoresse is broken, they are just products of the game being broken. It just sounds like you're trying to take a stab at people who are working hard to help the community on the other ends while knowing nothing about it.
Also, by the way, I know about what you really think about me since I caught wind of it a few days ago across servers and that this topic is just here to vent your frustration indirectly at me, so unless you have more content to provide then I do then you should just shut your mouth; there are people working hard over at our end too. I'm really happy you think we're the problem when I tried to help you organize an event and you never turned up so our event failed. Says a lot about your commitment to the game. Before you complain about a power problem or something, you said the event time was fine when we asked, so it's your responsibility.
I'm going to bring in a quote of mine from the suggestions thread. Read well. There are far more than 5 reasons listed. (There are more reasons and arguments; as you so want it, listed after the quote, so I will know if you tldr and ignored everything)
Now to address your points:
1) Servers are too different - This is not a reason why Fortoresse is broken. Yes, because servers are so different, having all servers access to EN screwed everything up. Given, there were already people moving into EN from other servers for easy kills before the update, except now it's around the clock. There is no racism involved here, but foreigners should not be able to move between servers for a reason. We are teaching our players with our own cultures and what is deemed moral in one place may be seen differently in another. Having foreigners forced into our servers conveying totally different morals just ruined the spirit of the rooms.
2) Toxicity - Again, this is not a reason Fortoresse is broken. There are so many things wrong with the balance of the game that people have gotten this way. Actually, this pretty much happens in all other gun games just not to this extent that we've seen.
3) Underpowered weapons - I'm happy you recognize this particular problem rather than the spas being broken. Yes, people need to die faster. The reason for this is that without dying faster people can just easily run away from fights and camp with ridiculous amounts of conj spam until their HP is back up, then just spam you. I don't want to use an automatic weapon because it gets outclassed by unskilled spas rush because the damage of the shotgun is just way too high to ever compete with. People must die faster.
Also, if you're so concerned about us not being able to compete with your spas, then why do your spasers get angry when we use another weapon to defeat them and not encourage us to keep using it? Sounds like you're not doing a good enough job telling your community to understand us better.
4) Way too glitchy - So you concede that when I get annoyed over a glitcher hitting me is not just me raging over nothing? Actually, I've had countless numbers of spasers complain at me for putting up shelter when they approach because running away will get me killed anyway. Plus, they have the highest DPS in the game so there's no point competing up close for damage, that's just what they want. I've put up a video about why rushing is so successful; and yes, because of ping differences.
Just today I encountered an aug user who switched to spas the moment they were in trouble then started glitching around me madly abusing every possible aspect of the game that's broken while I just stood still. So basically, I just left; why bother? It's not like I'd be able to compete with them unless I was a glitcher who mained spas... oh wait.
5) Different worlds - This is a repeat point. I won't respond to this one.
I'd like to present some more evidence based on our Fortoresse rally.
We expected that the game would go much faster and people would die faster making the game far less campy and so the guns would matter a lot less. What we got instead was too many bombs, and the games went way slower, so it was virtually impossible for the attacking team to capture the flag at all. Watch my video if you don't believe me and/or you weren't there.
So what's the issue?
1) Bombs prevent anyone from going in because they just blow up and kill you immediately so everyone is too scared to approach, no wonder you consider EN players campy maybe because you abuse bombs and spas as you claim a little too much?
2) Too much conj. This prevents anyone who uses a slow firing weapon or no bombs from ever going in, so snipers like me are excluded from the action. Also, when you join a room for the first time, there's an absurd amount of conj on your screen that really isn't there so the match is unplayable anyway.
3) Spawn distances from the objective. This means that even if you kill the people in the flag there are too many people in the room so others will take over the defense so the flag will never be captured. Also, if they are rushers or terrorists they will just sit in the flag and plant bombs and/or spam conj so they live as long as possible.
If you want to sound even slightly credible, give me something new and innovative that can:
1) Stop players from abusing conj, thus cleaning up all the glitches, spawn camps and campers.
2) Balance out the guns so that the type of gun doesn't matter as much, only the skill required to secure the kill.
3) Nerf bombs. This is the main problem when trying to capture the objective and why people choose to camp instead of go for the objective.
4) Do something about flags. Holding the flag or capturing the flag requires you to be inside the flag zone yet the flag zone is so small that it favors close-up weapons i.e. spas, so nobody will go into the flag out of fear of getting spased.
5) Convince other people to play this game again.
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So, first thing's first, if you think that this topic was made "only" to do criticism about you, nah. I'm just sick of this game overall exactly because of that motive that you so think that is there only to call you a camper. I don't need a topic and a motive to say that, at the same time that doing it would not help in any way. What I did there was more like a "shout" to most players that are in that general area.
About that Fortoresse Rally, yes, I was ok with the time. You know, I had some school stuff to do in that morning, but at the time it was ok. But then I went home and some guys were messing up with energy in the street, and turns out that I could only access the computer at night or such. When I got on, instantly opened fortoresse and then that room. Even when I saw it was empty, I got like 20-30 people there. Might not be as much as it would have been if I could log on in that time, but our energy company sucks and they think they can do whatever they want when they want without telling anyone about it.
And yes, I did read 1 by 1 of your motives and I agree with 99%. There's only 1 line that I find quite interesting.
"Spas is relatively unaffected (if fired slightly slower) and pretty much makes the imbalance problem worse."
I can agree and disagree with that. Unless the enemy is a Soldat and isn't firing, any higher ping could make the Spas player end up nullifying his own shots. That happens alot, not only with me, but with other random guys with other weapons too. And since it's a "Nuke" weapon (16 damage per shot, 6 shot per clip), missing 2 shots can kill the "momentum" that you get if you manage to get close to a enemy without they having time to react.
Yeah, everyone needs to die faster. I'm sick too of players using M4A1s and just not being rewarded for it. I can use it, of course, but not even close to doing the 60 damage the clip suggests. That 60 damage, too, sounds low, considering there are matches where you have 6 alive enemies. The "Nuke" potential being reserved only for MP5, UMP, Spas and M40 just kills the other automatics (Maybe G36C could work inside there, but not sure).
Nah, personally, I don't use mines. Not even spas a whole lot these days. Trying to adapt to autos, if they ever become fixed. The thing with the rushing spas players is that most of them use C4+Mines combo that, without the shelter, turns them into glass. If you see a Spas player who can kill without using conj, props to him, because most end up dying choking in missplaced conj. Now, seriously. All those Spas rushing players you guys end up getting in EN aren't even the good ones. Mostly because the "good" ones stopped playing, but I think you can understand what I mean with that "good", considering missbugging and half-glitching isn't something a skilled player should even consider using.
Snipers should penetrate more layers than just 1. That's something I did actually suggest in the BR section, I think. Yeah, agreed with that. But if they really wanted to make the game more "fast-paced" by buffing that Spas 12, they should at least buff the M40 not in a direct sense, but mostly adding the power it needs for those pesky maps like Jungle, where conj is either spread all out in the map or in thick defenses in their own spawn point. Conj is weak at 99% of the time, but when it comes to countering M40s, it ends up being quite strong. That doesn't sound even a little bit right.
The reason I said Toxicity, Solfn, comes more to affect BR server than any other. It is, kinda of, the motive BR server doesn't has any new player or any new/good player. There's that guy, Invisible, that thinks he can steal people's accounts without being punished. In Fortoresse, he is quite right. If I'm not wrong, 4 or 5 accounts already, and those 4 or 5 guys just ended up never playing again. That's not a high number, but try being a newbie in a BR room. I mean, just try. You'll end up getting killed by a half-glitcher and not killing anyone because there's always a shelter-tank in the front of the enemy teams, most time being a bomber who tries to plant a mine right under you. It's just impossible.
There are 2 ends at the "Spas" kind of player. The ones that bug, and the ones that don't bug and end up getting killed by the buggers. Personally I hate buggers. Most time I only bug for mobility, and when I see a half-glitcher, just end up turning away and ignoring that it was there, because killing it would be so difficult (Considering that, if the Uzi was used, he would just rush and catch me without the primary in hands) that isn't even worth dying for. What amazes me is that, in BR, there is that culture of "whoever bugs better is the best". After that one, I'm getting ready to move to Canada or such, because holy cow...
About the 1st point, I think you got the right intention of it. I didn't explain well enough, but props to you to seeing that.
And about the mines... Quite a lot of suggestions out there. Some say that it would be better for the trigger range to be greatly reduced, but the blast range itself should stay the same... Others say that the range itself should be lowered, or there should be some kind of "damage variant", considering that the person in the middle of the blast range of a mine gets damaged the same as someone right in the edge of the range... Or the damage itself should be lowered, so Mine+C4 isn't a insta-kill anymore if you're standing or such.
Ok. Let's try:
Also, thanks for taking your time to answer this, even if you think it was only created to hit you. I kinda of apologize if that came into your mind, was not the intention.
No "capture the flag" isn't a real capture the flag, no object to steal in a base... the gametype is closer to one-sided territories you can see in Halo.
The damage variant is something in Forteresse and it's the best way to nerf explosions, the question is : why explosions aren't like that since the beginnng when Forteresse use that system ? Remember explosions used to be (almost) instant kill.
Perks were pretty unbalanced since... Ever.
The mode "Capture the Flag" in Fort is something between King of the Hill mode and Counter-Strike's Bomb Defusal mode. It's just "not right" for the name it uses, you know.
I know : http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Territories#Halo_3_Rules
(After being captured, it remains locked and out of play, causing players to move on to other territories.)
And : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_the_flag
(the objective is to capture the other team's flag, located at the team's "base," and bring it safely back to their own base)
Really, I know capture the flag need bases and something for players to steal, for Fortoresse, it's only capture the flag because there is a flag in the area... the objective is an area, not a flag.
I will add my own contributions now since you have shown to me that you're willing to put in a detailed response:
The meaning of that first line is that because the spas fires relatively slow anyway (4th slowest in the game), you don't have to fire it much slower to counteract the effect of the bugs as you do with most of the other weapons. So basically it's almost completely unaffected and so spas players get free handicaps against all other players which they don't need.
It's a little hard to explain, but people prefer the weapons that you call 'nuke' weapons, and that's why they're broken. If you were to plot the average damage per second of each gun for every moment in time, you would see how people would use the abused guns because the massive spike upwards in average damage per second makes them want to.
I had a video of a sniper that penetrated 2 layers and I really liked using it because it was such a unique weapon, unfortunately I had to remove it because it had some unintended side effects.
The invisible guy I made a video on because he glitch killed me (using shots that appeared when he wasn't even visible) while camping the entire time the rest of the round and claimed he had no time for noobs since he had about 7 times more kills than I, so wouldn't fight me and wouldn't ever leave his camp hole. So basically he's one of your most toxic players.
Now I want to show you the suggestions I came up with for those major fixes:
1) Remove conj and replace it with a mechanic in which the speed of the player can be better predicted by the server (such as a grappling hook) so people never bug around crazily. Unfortunately, this is the only good fix I could see. A conj-like perk such as the worms girder could replace it.
2) Lower the HP of players to 20. Some guns will need to be nerfed like the current shotgun and sniper and some of the pistols, otherwise most of the other weapons can remain the same. This way players will die fast.
3) Make bombs destroyable. The reason they're so annoying is that even if you disarm them the cooldown of both bomb types are faster than the health perk and shelter perk so bomb abusers will just put them back where they were straight away and they'll litter the flag permanently. If bombs are destroyable then they'll be better suited to surprise attacks like they were intended to, or even distraction; and we won't have to waste our perks destroying them in futility.
4) The flag and map size must expand (however, may not be necessary if grappling hooks exist instead of conj). It's too easy for people to sit in the flag forever so it never gets captured since the spawn distances are too close to the flag. Also, we need more room to fight without it being advantageous for shotguns and bombers only.
5) Various suggestions such as solo gamemodes, allowing titles to carry across games, monetization etc.
It'd take a while for the game to heal.
An alternative would be to let all the long time toxic players like (Insert name) and whoever to just quit the game. They probably wont ever come back. This will happen when people like us stop playing. They are there to hunt players who they think will prove their superiority. if there is no one to show off their stats and "achievements" they will ultimately say to themselves "Hmm no use of showing off in this game, lets just quit".
However this wont happen if new players are constantly bombarded with this environment. The cycle will continue and these types of players are bred. It takes some players who aren't well known to create a path.
The end results will be like this
-new players are introduced to a playable environment free of horrible toxicity that is comparable to League. (Dont mind the in game fixes just yet.
-A renaissance era will start, just like 2013-2014. An age of discovery & experiments.Ex. A lot more Diversity in a gun and perk setup.
-More people will play and stay.
-If they are still around by this time, Atelier might give us a chance and give us a good update.
Now this may be a bit too hopeful, but if everything goes right, then these are the main results. One thing guaranteed is that we will be able to start over.
Its just a matter of cleansing this game of the toxic environment first before we do all these updates and such.
I'm actually going to quit playing, however i will support creating a path for new players.
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I went into a room today and got a 6 killstreak with my an 94 against a large group of enemies solo while defending the flag (no healing). I was doing amazing with the gun.
Everything changed when the spas nation attacked.
Tbh the state of this game is like it is in TF2 right now.
Something came to mind, maybe conj can be kept except all players can go through it, so just get rid of its ability to have players stand on it. Then, a mechanic with a more predictable path can substitute as the main method of movement.
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So, there's a thing I'd like to point out, Solfn, that most of players in all servers make. It's a mistake. Even I made it last text, I think.
If a player picks a Spas, he's using a Spas. A Spas player is different from a Player using a Spas, the same way goes with M40.
The thing is, since Spas is the most broken weapon right now, people just see anyone that uses it as the same type. A Spas players outclasses the others, a Player using Spas outguns them. That goes with any weapon, too. Just a thing I'd like to point out, since some people in VoF seem to be very toxic when it comes to broken weapons.
I could see a Jetpack coming into play to go in the place of Conj. A fuel-limited one, that actually regenerates. Could be another bar below or above conj one, so you have 2 different resources to manage. Would induce players in thinking more and spamming less, at least in my view.
That's a good way to make people die less. But then you nerf every single other kind of perks and stuff, since a Mine could kill a group in 1 go. That would be an incentive to "Terrorism", as you say.
I actually found out a new bug, but I can't re-do it. I actually shot, did damage, but didn't consume ammo. That was using a M40. Seems like I switched when the shot fired but before the animation itself happened, so it looked like I was shooting with a Uzi. Switching back to M40 would still show that 7/4, so... Guess shouldn't teach other players to do it, but if even I can't repeat it, I doubt others can, even on purpose.
The conjuration shouldn't disappears... I guess you have a new name for the game without conjuration ? Almost like Halo without shields, it's here since the very beginning + the Forteresse module and his shotgun fire was fine I guess, send more pellets (double) but they are less powerful (only 1)
I don't have problem with weapons being slightly different from another (the Famas is just another M4 A1, the Steyr Aug is another AK 47, the UMP 45 is another MP5... low tier Vs. high tier, that system is here since... at least the 90's, here you have multiple weapons to use) .
But you never tried to waste all shots, I expect a phantom bullet at the end...
I did waste all my shots. I was in a VIP room, after all. I saw 8 shots doing damage. Same happened once to my M4, but since is an auto, not a big difference in damage. I'll try to repeat it so I can send detailed intel about that bug, but I really don't know if I can repeat it even if I wanted to.
The problem for the lack of players is not necessarily the players' fault nor the toxicity of the community but rather the blame is on the admins. They failed to deliver what they promised and this angered a lot of players which led to the result of the game being abandoned.
true. once i rekt my tribemates with the spas... 3 v 1 (1 is me)
the conj idea is bad. some ctf maps have elevated flags, and after a few seconds carving out the landscape it would become unwinnable.
The good thing is, though, salty campers & bombers would be much weaker. there would also be a lot less "ew" as conj would become less used.