Mapcrew a dit :

It can be difficult to balance bootcamp for both newer players and veteran players, for all the complaints we get from veteran players about hard bootcamp maps, we get an equal amount of complaints from newer bootcamp players who have trouble finding maps that they can learn on. It’s hard because while bootcamp is supposed to be hard, there also needs to be a decent amount of easy maps so that newer players don’t just try out bootcamp and leave because they have no chance of ever completing the maps they play. I’m sure all of the veteran bootcamp players started off playing easy maps as well, and that was the only way they were able to be better. We are trying our best to make the bootcamp rotation perfect, but it’s a lot of work and something that will take time.

It's one thing to balance bootcamp for a wide range of skills, it's a whole another thing to constantly remove or reject maps for being hard, whilst adding literally hundreds of generic, easy maps that no one actually enjoys playing. Yes, newer players might find it easier to complete maps that consist entirely of TA's and walljumping, but completing every single map that shows up is not the point of bootcamp, and players should not enter bootcamp rooms under the impression that they will easily be able to complete the maps. When I started playing, I could barely complete maps that the bootcamp community considers farm, yet I still found it fun to try out lots of different maps, and gain some skills along the way even if I didn't end up completing them. Bootcamp is a mode for experienced players. We already have vanilla, racing, normal, etc. basically every single mode in the game that isn't bootcamp for less experienced players who prefer easy maps. Is it too much to ask to have one mode that actually offers a challenge?

I'm a bit late but I'd like to give my opinion, since this is the transformice minigame I've played a lot and still enjoy playing it. I'll be very direct with what I think.

I think it's fine as it is. Every time I'm on a bootcamp room and the map that is playing is somehow considered "hard", the room's mice count drops quite a lot. This makes me think that majority doesn't enjoy those innovative and hard difficulty concepts. Why add these kind of maps if only a little group enjoy playing on them? Despite the fact that there are and there will always exisist maps with a higher difficulty being added, just not much as you wish them. For me, every single map, doesn't mean if it's the easiest map, it'll have its particular challenge. That's the essence of the bootcamp rooms. Boring would be if the rotation maps were always the same.

Foslii a dit :

Boring would be if the rotation maps were always the same.

So how exactly does adding hundreds of maps consisting of nothing but cj's and ta's fix that?

The problem with the repermed maps is that they are 98% generic crap with just ta's, wj, cj and few other boring obstacles that nobody except <500bc people and few speedrunners consider fun. I would rather like Map Crew to look for maps from P3/13 submission thread, which were in discussion, but rejected for some reason - maybe they won't be so cool as we all want bootcamp maps to be, but still better than this ugly, gameplay-free crap which made me completely left bootcamp. It's not fun skipping 90% maps, looking for something more interesting.

Maybe the whole problem may be solved by simple but major change in bootcamp - making P3 nob maps (easy, based on ta/wj/cj, those to learn the mechanics) and P13 good maps, and then make the rotation alternated, I mean P3 -> P13 -> P3 -> P13 -> ...
That would make everyone knows what kind of map will be next and therefore people may decide to stay or change room. In English server, where are often 5+ bc rooms at the same time, veterans may play only the harder ones, and newbies may play only easier maps.

Foslii a dit :

Every time I'm on a bootcamp room and the map that is playing is somehow considered "hard", the room's mice count drops quite a lot. This makes me think that majority doesn't enjoy those innovative and hard difficulty concepts. Why add these kind of maps if only a little group enjoy playing on them?

cuz 1) we have enough crap boring maps, 2) most of those people doesnt really like bootcamp, they are just on bc for titles, 3) we cant forget this little group, they also want to have fun

Hey racing nobs, I've been pretty busy the past couple weeks so I forgot to change the racing maps on the 1st of the month. I'm doing it now.

These new bootcamp maps only play 1/3rd of the time at most. Why are you guys acting like bootcamp is ruined?

Anythin a dit :

These new bootcamp maps only play 1/3rd of the time at most. Why are you guys acting like bootcamp is ruined?

1/3rd of the time are new bc maps based on wj/cj/ta and another 1/3 are old maps based on wj/cj/ta. Spending nearby 70% time on bootcamp waiting for something good isn't really fun, and maps with same obstacles combined in a slightly different way doesn't make bc more unpredictable.

It's okay that there are maps for not so skilled mice, but the previous proportion was good, now there's too much "nob" - as Barry probably would call it - maps compared to the count of hard, interesting for veteran players, maps.

Also there's a problem that there's still huge difference between these two map groups - playing "nob" maps won't really make you better prepared for the harder ones, as the obstacles and gameplay are completely different. Walljumping won't make you understand tramp chains and 3x 20px choco TA combo won't help you with lowmasses or booster grounds. Another problem to deal with, huh

Virtini a dit :

1/3rd of the time are new bc maps based on wj/cj/ta and another 1/3 are old maps based on wj/cj/ta. Spending nearby 70% time on bootcamp waiting for something good isn't really fun, and maps with same obstacles combined in a slightly different way doesn't make bc more unpredictable.

To add to that, P3 plays twice as often as P13, and consists of 80%-90% old maps with generic obstacles, whereas the new pack of filler maps was added to P13. Taking everything into account, you spend much more than 70% of the time waiting for maps that are actually fun to play.
I'm not even getting into all the maps that were removed for supposedly being "too hard or confusing" in the past two or so years.

Virtini a dit :

1/3rd of the time are new bc maps based on wj/cj/ta and another 1/3 are old maps based on wj/cj/ta. Spending nearby 70% time on bootcamp waiting for something good isn't really fun, and maps with same obstacles combined in a slightly different way doesn't make bc more unpredictable.

It's okay that there are maps for not so skilled mice, but the previous proportion was good, now there's too much "nob" - as Barry probably would call it - maps compared to the count of hard, interesting for veteran players, maps.

Also there's a problem that there's still huge difference between these two map groups - playing "nob" maps won't really make you better prepared for the harder ones, as the obstacles and gameplay are completely different. Walljumping won't make you understand tramp chains and 3x 20px choco TA combo won't help you with lowmasses or booster grounds. Another problem to deal with, huh

I think these new maps are great for the casual bootcamper. Not everyone is trying to get better or is trying to be the best, some people just like to finish maps and feel accomplished by doing so. In my opinion very hard maps have been favored for way too long. As a result, players started to constantly change rooms to find playable maps (which, ironically, is what you are complaining about too) or were pushed away completely because only a handful of very pro players were able to enjoy these kind of maps.

As Mapcrew more or less pointed out on the previous page, you can never please everyone at the same time. Nevertheless I am happy with the decision they made to put these maps in rotation, and I hope they continue on this path.

Anythin a dit :

I think these new maps are great for the casual bootcamper. Not everyone is trying to get better or is trying to be the best, some people just like to finish maps and feel accomplished by doing so. In my opinion very hard maps have been favored for way too long. As a result, players started to constantly change rooms to find playable maps (which, ironically, is what you are complaining about too) or were pushed away completely because only a handful of very pro players were able to enjoy these kind of maps.

As Mapcrew more or less pointed out on the previous page, you can never please everyone at the same time. Nevertheless I am happy with the decision they made to put these maps in rotation, and I hope they continue on this path.

As I've said before, there are numerous other modes in the game where you can finish maps easily and without much effort. If you aren't looking for maps which are challenging to master and complete, bootcamp isn't for you.

Here's a question for you, do you think people play maps with 3 choco ta's in a row because they enjoy the gameplay, or because they want to farm stats with minimum effort?

What seems a minimum effort to you maybe cannot be that minimum for someone else. Personally I enjoy TA maps, even while I prefer the kind of maps that are a bit more challenging. If people enjoy or not a map's gameplay, it's a too subjective thing that can't be judged by yourself. There will never be a map that everyone will like, as there will never be a map everyone hates, that's a clear fact. I didn't like some of the maps that have been permed too, but your arguments and reasons are invalid for me. Instead of just complaining, I'd recommend you to try to find solutions. I have already sent a suggestion, hopefully they will discuss it soon, but remember that perming harder maps, as said a lot of times here and directly for you, clearly won't be a solution. If I were you I'd stop and find a valid way for solutions. I also think that there are a few issues that should be discussed, but I'm not going to be so insistent to define a conception of how bootcamp should be for myself. Sorry, your question isn't for me but I couldn't let it pass..

Once again, the easy, generic maps themselves are not the problem. The fact that they're they only type of map that seems to be added anymore while challenging maps constantly get rejected and removed is.

Welcome back Leetinsanity ^^

Congratulations Leetinsanity :D

Welcome back Leet, and goodbye Xeli <3

byee xeli :((
wbb leet!!!

We'll miss you, Xeli!
Welcome back, Leet!

Sad to see you leave, Xeli! You were the qtest.
Happy to have you back, Let!

XELIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII T.T I WILL MISS YOU :C

welcome back leet, now I will spam you with nob maps once again