[Chat] EN Map Chat !

This discussion was already beyond the point of offering anything of substance before I even started to take a part in it. I explained why, but since the person in question doesn't want to hear it there's nothing left to do other than posting funny memes.

https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1337514697932_6155781.png

#322

This discussion will not reach an agreement because you guys don't know how to discuss it. The first thing that should be done when you are trying to suggest something to change how things currently work, as the own name says "suggest", is to respect the current system, whenever you agree or not with it. You can't just come here and blame people or try to impose your point of view. Where's maturity? I used to be a bit insistent like you, but I learned this is just the worst way to deal with these things, your ideals will never be considered if you're being insistent and not respecting the others opinion.

Avebi a dit :
Barrydarsow a dit :
Hey racing nobs what do you think, should I put the classic retro maps in the racing rotation during the month of May again? If so, this will be the 3rd year in a row that it happens.

oh find one racer who would be happy with it, please stop ruining the fun in this game with some useless "maps" made of completely random grounds spread all around the place. create a new module called retroracing if you really want and watch it get 0 daily players cause this is unebelieveable that you actually make people play these for a full month. Barry i talked to you once and i remember you said Goondad is ruining bootcamp. if youre gonna go after other mapcrew members then look at what youre doing to racing first, these maps should never see the daylight ever again period

this is not only my opinion, believe me i have never seen anyone reasonable saying something different from "wtf is this" after seeing 2 or 3 of those maps. i honestly think this is not something that should be even discussed, i dont know what makes you think that its a good idea.
please dont make it happen, i believe im speaking for the vast majority of people who play racing

also the only ones who said yes to this here have little to 0 experience in that game mode so i assume they just said it cause they didnt wanna disagree with you, cause why would they

This post has toxic arguments, its egocentric and it's somehow provoking to other people. No one will try to consider your arguments if you're not handling this professionally. Instead of saying they don't know what they are doing, just try to go on what you want to suggest and do not use as argument something that is purely from your own perspective. (like the fact you think people has 0 experience because you don't like the maps)

Avebi a dit :
nothing i said earlier was directly offensive nor did it contain any swear words and yet it got moderated anyways xD looks like some people cant stand it when truth is being spoken, gg staff keep protecting this man with a god complex

There isn't a truth being spoken, there's no truth anywhere... You're imposing your ideals again...

I won't read more comment, this is tiring but what i see is the same group always complaining and using their same strategy to criticize others. Also, this is not for only you, Avebi, I'm quoting your posts because you're the one that started this discussion which apparently won't go anywhere.

I don't play racing anymore, so I have nothing to say, but I liked it when I used to play it.

#323

Anythin a dit :
This discussion was already beyond the point of offering anything of substance before I even started to take a part in it. I explained why, but since the person in question doesn't want to hear it there's nothing left to do other than posting funny memes.

Lol funny memes, ur comments are funny

#324

Scientists proved 99% of the people who readed this discussion don't care about this drama

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#325

I liked it when they did the same retro thing for survivor ^^

#326

Avebi a dit :

xD kill me

@159024

@173344

@174556

@248760

@199820

@279479

@261543

now please tell me that this is how the future of this game is supposed to look like lmao there is an awfully long list of maps that i would classify as classics and maybe some of them are on the retro list as well but if a huge part of the retro maps is looking like this then ill keep proudly calling it a joke and absolute trash

have a good evening everyone :----)

What exactly makes these bad maps? Is it because they don't rely on gimmicks and cheap shortcuts that negate 70% of the map design? Or is it because you don't know them like the back of your hand so you can't gain an instantaneous advantage against half the room to get first?

#327

I understand retro maps differ from the current racing maps but why is it that bad?
They are neither something new nor harmful, in fact they add more variety to the same boring group rotation.
Not liking them is a matter of personal opinion. No matter what someone does, there will always be someone unhappy with it.

Anythin a dit :
These retro racing maps have been discussed with the rest of Mapcrew that deals with racing. If they thought it was a bad idea, they'd never allow this to happen.

#328

@Meanspeed: shortcuts and nice flaws are the best and most interesting part od racing (u can see how popular burla video's on youtube are) so lacking them wont be considered good by racing players (and i'm p sure racing should care about its own players), lack of design make game looks lame in newcomers' eyes, basing on same wj cj or just jump run mechanics is boring on a long run, adding this kind of maps may confuse mapmakers, causing things to get worse later if they accidentially start making same kind of maps. Its also unfair to actually creative people, as their ideas are being rejected due to adding random grounds spam.

Trust me, racing players LOVES new maps if they have something to figure out there. But what's to figure out on runjump maps, where ping may be important to get first, as there is no place to get any advantage at all? Its just boring. Just 90 seconds of annoyance popping up once a time.

tldr adding new maps is gud
adding old maps not rly

@kim racing isn't survivor, the rotation of p17 is so big it has to be split into some monthly packs, while p10 is like 190 maps v.v

#329

-removed-

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#330

[Modéré par Batt_mellamy, raison : Off-topic]

#331

last post alert

what makes them bad? the thing that they dont rely on neither skill, logic or knowledge - all of the things that are important on racing. they're nothing but spontaneous just as barry wanted and who said that its a good thing? if i wanted a spontaneos game then I'd play rock paper scissors in my tribe house. racing is everything but spontaneous and there's nothing fun in not having idea what you're doing there. not even mentioning that the new players who come to racing for the first time during that period will assume that its completely underdeveloped and not worth sticking to. im 100% certain that the most interesting and enjoyable thing on racing is going for shortcuts, some are obvious and some are super hard that not many people even know that exist. that's what gives you advantage and that's how its supposed to be. the "racing nobs" who you assume are ruining the game are the ones who jump around rooms and all they care about is farming firsts, not fun shortcuts so you're not causing any real damage to them, you're not letting people have fun, the ones who actually enjoy racing. its fun discovering new p17 perms but the retro rotation is a big no. newcomers will learn in their own pace and they dont need any special treatment because thats exactly how any other game in the world works - you LEARN. I'll keep pointing out that this discussion is literally people who care about racing versus people who won't even bother playing 10 rounds in may, thats the most upsetting in all this.

you want me to suggest a solution? people are submitting their maps for p17 rotation all the time and 99% of them are getting rejected. maybe replace the retro month with under appreciated p17 submissions that actually have something fun to offer and MIX them with current racing maps to not make it into something completely new, something that people hate. wait some time, ask for people's opinions on these maps, if there's anything they would like to change and then perm the ones people appreciated for various reasons, whether or not you think they completely deserve this.

now i understand that most of the things i said earlier are disgusting and not even worth reading but if thats what it takes to draw people's attention to the problem then i regret nothing, maybe the next time barry decides to do something ridiculous more people will stand up for their own opinions. yes i still call it ridiculous and there's no way in hell that anyone can change my mind cause thats exactly what it is in my opinion

that's all i had to say

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#332

haha i'm so done

#333

Is the mech I used in this map new or has it already been used? (wait 10 secs for the rectangle ground to disappear so you can see the mech)

@7419141

You also might have to touch the circle next to the huge one to make it work.

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#334

If someone can give me a list of 250-500 modern racing maps that are not part of any group then I'd love to have a group of all new maps. My original plan was to have a month of never-before-seen retro maps followed by a month of never-before-seen modern maps. The issue was that I only got up to about 50 maps and it was eating up so much time, so instead I just perm those maps from time to time along with whatever the month's current group is. It takes time to find and test maps. Like I always say, any nob can point out maps that suck, the hard part is finding better ones. If you're up to the challenge, I'll even give you a tool to load the maps and pick them out more easily.

You're welcome to hate the retro maps, nobody is arguing that you need to like them. That choice was understood to be very controversial from the beginning and it wasn't meant to please players like you. The part I don't understand however is that you seem to have a personal issue with me.

I've been in charge of racing since 2011 before it was an official part of the game, back when Holzinator was controlling it. Holz got sick of dealing with map submissions so he gave map control to a few mods that raced (Secuoya, Thejkb, and someone else I've forgotten). Nobody else wanted to spend the time required to load and test all the maps, so it quickly became my responsibility.
When racing became official with P17, I had to argue with the Map Crew who at the time were very strict and wanted to deperm a bunch of the classic maps because they looked ugly. In the following years, Tig was updating the game frequently and fucking up half the map rotation without any warning. The update that broke wallpushes, the ice speed trick, and other animation-dependent ways to take a lead ruined half of the racing shortcuts either entirely or partially. I found replacements and kept adding more maps, both via the submission thread and by looking through random map lists... P1s, P0s that came up during regular game play, wherever I could find them. Since 2015, there has been a bug with the server's map randomizer. I took some stats and it showed that certain maps played 10 times before other maps played even once. The devs couldn't fix the problem so as usual I fixed it myself by splitting the 1000+ racing maps into groups and changing them on the 1st of the month (sadly some maps still play too often and I can't fix this unless I put a bot in a room and have it control the map rotation). A couple years ago the submitted maps all looked and played the same (all shitty maze maps for some reason), so I typed up a guide and started giving detailed reviews in the months the followed. I can't even tell you how many PMs I sent back and forth with players after that to help them make more interesting maps. When I started making improvements with my health issues and spending less time on this game, I made sure that the Map Crew members that would be reviewing the racing thread and picking maps after my departure would know what to do. It's not limited to all that either, hell, I created Mapdrawbot which you've been using for your records sheet.

Mapdrawbot Log a dit :
2018-03-28 [10:57] > [PL][Avebi#0000] damn sexy

Looks might even like the bot a little too much.

You're wording your posts like I'm some assclown that doesn't even like racing, like I just showed up recently and fucked with something sacred. I've been here the entire time. If you knew all this and still think I suck then hey you have the right to feel that way, but don't lose sight of the fact that this is one small decision as part of a much bigger picture.

For future reference, the best way to get me (and most other people) to ignore your opinion is by ranting and raving in an emotional manner like this. It doesn't call anyone's attention to a problem or change anyone's minds, it only gets the attention of people that agreed with you in the first place. If you want people to listen then you need to relax, state your opinion in a respectful manner and propose a solution. Save this kind of rage for when I replace the entire racing rotation with shaman maps. Normally I don't respond to tantrums because giving attention to it just reinforces that kind of behavior but let's see if we can get something positive out of this situation:

I look forward to you showing me those under-appreciated maps you spoke about. Look, I'll even do some of the work for you!
Here is a list of all the maps in the P17 thread with duplicates and current racing maps removed: https://pastebin.com/raw/gZDCrdXm
Here is a tool to load them quickly and pick out the ones you want: http://barrydarsow.com/NobMapLoader.exe
If you want to sort or randomize the list, I like using this site: http://www.sortmylist.com

How To Use

Fuzzyfirsdog a dit :
Is the mech I used in this map new or has it already been used? (wait 10 secs for the rectangle ground to disappear so you can see the mech)

@7419141

You also might have to touch the circle next to the huge one to make it work.

Sorry to overshadow your post with this wall of text, I'll quote it here so people can see/respond.

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#335

Preach ^

#336

sup guys

#337

this game is a joke

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#338

Avebi do you want a cookie ?

#339

Avebi a dit :
Barrydarsow a dit :
If someone can give me a list of 250-500 modern racing maps that are not part of any group then I'd love to have a group of all new maps.

Barrydarsow a dit :
I look forward to you showing me those under-appreciated maps you spoke about.

as far as im concerned im not a part of the mapcrew so its not my job to do any of those things. you posted a question concerning your idea, not a job offer for anyone who disagrees with you. i would gladly spend my time on it if i was sure that it would get implemented, just like you were. but why would i risk losing so much time on something that you could simply throw into trash after im done? i wouldnt be surprised if you did it just to "upset" this uncomfortable crying racer once more after all the things i said here. besides that, i suggested a different solution only because one of your defenders told me to. if you ask me, then forgetting about the retro rotation and leaving everything as it was is the best option for everyone.

Barrydarsow a dit :
You're welcome to hate the retro maps, nobody is arguing that you need to like them. That choice was understood to be very controversial from the beginning and it wasn't meant to please players like you. The part I don't understand however is that you seem to have a personal issue with me.

i did not have a personal issue with you before you started pointing out exactly the thing you said here, that you want to upset racers like me. and why is that? the majority of people who play racing frequently are like me so why would you target us in something like this? i just cant possibly imagine why you think that part of your job is making people mad, i think youre supposed to make the players happy after all, not yourself. i guess you wanted to give worse players a chance to get firsts but believe me, it doesnt work this way at all. the people who lead in racing when the normal rotation is up, are the ones who lead during the retro rotation as well. the only thing that youre changing is preventing almost everyone from having fun.

i saw many people complaining about you throughout the years so maybe thats why my attitude towards you was negative from the beginning, i just knew that i wasnt alone in this

okay
Barrydarsow a dit :
I've been in charge of racing since 2011 before it was an official part of the game, back when Holzinator was controlling it. Holz got sick of dealing with map submissions so he gave map control to a few mods that raced (Secuoya, Thejkb, and someone else I've forgotten). Nobody else wanted to spend the time required to load and test all the maps, so it quickly became my responsibility.
When racing became official with P17, I had to argue with the Map Crew who at the time were very strict and wanted to deperm a bunch of the classic maps because they looked ugly. In the following years, Tig was updating the game frequently and fucking up half the map rotation without any warning. The update that broke wallpushes, the ice speed trick, and other animation-dependent ways to take a lead ruined half of the racing shortcuts either entirely or partially. I found replacements and kept adding more maps, both via the submission thread and by looking through random map lists... P1s, P0s that came up during regular game play, wherever I could find them. Since 2015, there has been a bug with the server's map randomizer. I took some stats and it showed that certain maps played 10 times before other maps played even once. The devs couldn't fix the problem so as usual I fixed it myself by splitting the 1000+ racing maps into groups and changing them on the 1st of the month (sadly some maps still play too often and I can't fix this unless I put a bot in a room and have it control the map rotation). A couple years ago the submitted maps all looked and played the same (all shitty maze maps for some reason), so I typed up a guide and started giving detailed reviews in the months the followed. I can't even tell you how many PMs I sent back and forth with players after that to help them make more interesting maps. When I started making improvements with my health issues and spending less time on this game, I made sure that the Map Crew members that would be reviewing the racing thread and picking maps after my departure would know what to do. It's not limited to all that either, hell, I created Mapdrawbot which you've been using for your records sheet.

i did not question your relevance on racing or how long youve been around. i knew about half of the things you said here and i truly appreciate the fact that you did so much for racing but its in the past. this is only about one particular issue, not about what youve been doing in 2011 or 2015 so i dont know why you brought this up. i might have said that you have no idea what youre doing but that was about the retro rotation idea, not anything else.

Barrydarsow a dit :

Mapdrawbot Log a dit :
2018-03-28 [10:57] > [PL][Avebi#0000] damn sexy

Looks might even like the bot a little too much.

i used your bot 2 times in my life, 1 time when i was testing how it works and 1 time when i wanted to check if you already removed me from the list of people who have access to it after i confronted you, because honestly thats what im expecting you to do.
i didnt even mean to send that message to the bot, i sent it in the wrong chat after i tested it so i dont know why its relevant here xD believe me i have no interest in making friends with your bots, dont worry.

i swear if i get moderated for quoting this
Barrydarsow a dit :
You're wording your posts like I'm some assclown that doesn't even like racing, like I just showed up recently and fucked with something sacred. I've been here the entire time. If you knew all this and still think I suck then hey you have the right to feel that way, but don't lose sight of the fact that this is one small decision as part of a much bigger picture.

yes you have been around this whole time but looking at your stats i come to a conclusion that you dont really play racing so you dont know what it looks like from the players' point of view and as a player im giving you my honest opinion. there are different perspectives and maybe this time yours doesnt let you see the damage youre causing

Barrydarsow a dit :
For future reference, the best way to get me (and most other people) to ignore your opinion is by ranting and raving in an emotional manner like this. It doesn't call anyone's attention to a problem or change anyone's minds, it only gets the attention of people that agreed with you in the first place. If you want people to listen then you need to relax, state your opinion in a respectful manner and propose a solution. Save this kind of rage for when I replace the entire racing rotation with shaman maps. Normally I don't respond to tantrums because giving attention to it just reinforces that kind of behavior but let's see if we can get something positive out of this situation

well 4 pages of text appeared because of my ranting so i wouldnt say i got ignored, especially when i got responses from mapcrew members, including you. most of it is my whining but still, not ignored at all.

i had a few strangers whispering me in-game and telling me that what im doing is right - some of them were mapmakers who are simply afraid of posting in this thread for obvious reasons, that says something

---

now look, i know you put a lot of work into this whole retro idea but why cant you let go of it now? i wouldnt be writing so much about this if it was something minor and im 100% sure that everyone would be happy if you simply didnt include it on racing anymore. some racers dont have an opinion and they dont care but you can see that theres a group of people who hate it, its larger than you think it is. i guarantee that you will not cause an outrage if you forget about the retro maps. players who love, who would miss these maps will not confront you because i believe they just dont exist. correct me if im wrong though.

guess i lied when i said i posted my last comment

If you want to make racing better, then instead of insulting mapcrew members, you could do what Barry said, reviewing the maps by yourself, as all point of this meaningless whining was that you hate racing rotation.

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#340

one would think its a permanent change judging by these reactions

its just for one month, aka 8.3% of the year

if just 1 out of 12 people that play the mode think its a good idea it would still be justified

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