/Support Cg thinks totems are endangering kids in Africa, Cg wants totems to be removed in survivor, Cg also thinks TFM Developers are lazy and rarely listen to any of the suggestions.

/support
just full support

/support totems are the little kids of the anvilgod -_-# holy shamanemperess help us against em!

a dit :

Since cannons have a downward movement, these horizontal grounds give you the ability to avoid cannons (if the cannon totem from the OP is being used, as an example).

Yeah they have a downward movement, but they dont just fall down. The cannons collide with each other and keep them up, hit the grounds and bounce from them. 2 Cannons are enough already and you cant jump over them anymore. I will show you later even on flat grounds its pretty impossible to survive them (especially if there are also boxes in it).

a dit :

It seems rather easy to blame this on the use of a totem alone when often people are also too busy talking or arguing or doing other things.

So you want to say its easy to survivor a wall of cannons if you just pay attention? I cant agree with that, even with full attention to the game, the chance to survive a totem is really small.

a dit :

You're right, the totem is to help the shaman. How is that different in survivor?

Please highlight everything I said.

a dit :

The totem is meant to help the shaman BUILD at hardmode,

There is a reason I wrote BUILD big. Hardmode was added for vanilla, where you have to BUILD, not for survivor where you dont have to build at all.

a dit :

The totem is there to help the shaman kill the mice. It's not there to save mice (in survivor), that would make no sense.

Just like it doesnt make sense to use a killing totem in vanilla (I wonder if vanillaplayers would complain if I use a cannon totem in vanilla).

a dit :

Just because it is beneficial for mice in vanilla, doesn't mean it has to be beneficial for mice elsewhere. The essence of the totem is to help the shaman. If other people benefit from it that's just extra.

The shaman doesnt play alone, there are other mice which try to enjoy the game. Its not just an extra if other people benefit from it, its the purpose since it was added for vanilla. If one person disturbs the gameplay of 25 other mice just because a totem, something is pretty wrong.

a dit :

Your words...

You came up with removing totems in general from survivor would also remove the useless totems. Useless totems dont add anything to the gameplay, while massive killing totems disturb it.
That useless totems wouldnt be there anymore is just a side effect, which I can easily accept.

You keep saying that hard mode and totems were added only for vanilla. Unless you can back that up with an official announcement or statement from somewhere it's nothing more but an assumption, because you (and others) want it to be just for vanilla. As far as I am concerned hard mode is applicable to all relevant game modes and so far nothing indicates that this is not intended to be.

Lunarianuba a dit :

So you want to say its easy to survivor a wall of cannons if you just pay attention? I cant agree with that, even with full attention to the game, the chance to survive a totem is really small.

Well I don't know in which rooms you play, but those times I see a cannon totem when I am in survivor, it practically always fails partially. I suppose we just have to agree to disagree on that. What's funny is that I was in survivor-1 on the EN server for half an hour waiting for some cannon totems to prove my point, but surprisingly there was not a single shaman who had one.......

Lunarianuba a dit :

If one person disturbs the gameplay of 25 other mice just because a totem, something is pretty wrong.

It's not wrong. In the case of survivor, the gameplay consists of 1 shaman trying to kill all other mice in the room. That's exactly what a totem does, so in what way does using a totem disturb the gameplay?

@Lunarianuba & @Anythin; I wouldn't like to have to take a side on this "discussion". I think everything you both have said is right but most of the people in this thread are going to agree with me that totems are a real annoyance in Survivor, they don't let us enjoy the game, plus not in all servers and at all times there are totems, they just are more frequent in some places than others, denote that this doesn't make them less bad. They're still that thing some non-regular and all REGULAR SURVIVOR PLAYERS WHO ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE GAME hate.

one of the things i like most about tfm is that for the most part it is a game where the more skilled players win most of the time, which can't be said for a lot of other games. if anything i'd argue allowing totems in survivor detracts from this massively, as it doesn't take any skill to click one button and instantly kill the entire room. why should players who are unable to kill be allowed a cheap way out and be rewarded for it? it doesn't make sense to me

with the introduction of cannon coins in survivor, the active survivor playerbase is larger than ever and being rewarded for killing mice has brought a lot of vanilla players to survivor looking for rewards. as a result the pool of people actively using totems in survivor has increased hugely, to the point where every room i play in there's 4 or 5 people who will use a totem during their sham turn, meaning i'm likely going to unfairly die 5 times during the run up to my sham turn. this makes the game almost unplayable, who should competent players bother trying when they can achieve the same result with one click of a button?

the more i play survivor the more it turns me away, which is sad because it is my favourite part of tfm and i've made many good friends playing, but there's such an overwhelming amount of people who agree that totems are the single worst thing about survivor. i recognise some of the names posted in this thread who support the totem ban, and it's no surprise that these are the most active and well versed survivor players out there, why are you alienating the most dedicated playerbase? i've played about 30k rounds myself and i know that banning totems instantly makes the game 100% more enjoyable, so i'm throwing all my support behind this

/support

Dont ban them. Personally I never use totems in survivor, and yes they can get a bit annoying but it keeps it interesting. Theres only so much you can do in survivor, and skill is the largest factor. So what you collect all the survivor items and titles?

Keep in mind, I ONLY PLAY SURVIVOR. In fact I recognize most of you. Survivor cant really be enjoyed unless there is more to it then just cannons. Totems make it interesting, killing people or missing them completely. People over-reacted when we got different cannons to use in survivor, but no one is complaining about them now.

If TFM bans totems in survivor you bet you'll never see my name in a survivor room again. You might as well ban items in survivor too because its a "cheap" way for others to kill people and earn coins/points. Oh, also you might want to ban giving "meeps" to people in survivor. Kinda cheap too right? You might as well ban boxes because some folks, (cough jimbon cough) hate when people use them to kill others. Wait! I forgot about anti-spirit, ban that too!

HOLD ON! You might as well ban everything but cannons, because apparently thats what survivor is. Just cannons. Fun right? Nothing. But. Cannons.

Now that my rant of sarcasm is over, I can tell you survivor would really suck without totems.

Sorry Silver, i never complain about boxes, planks, meeps, spirit or anti spirit. I might say oh shit when it does kill me but they are a part of the game so you bring something in that is not to the topic. We are here to get rid of the totems that unskilled shamans use to just clear the map, not all the rest of the game. And i disagree with you heavely if you remove totems survivor would suck. Let me tell you i know a lot of survivor players but lately i see a shift. The friends i used to play with are almost all gone because of totems. I see beginners lvl 15, 20 with a totem saying ok guys i rip my totem and have 6,7 cannon coins. Why should they be rewarded for 1 push on a button. Jim I agree with you, survivor isn't fun if you don't get a chance to survive.

I think, if Transformice isn't going to ban totems completely (which would be the easy option), there should at least be a consequence for using lethal, unfair totems - for example being temporarily banned from the room.
This would let people use fun totems in the game; as well as get rid of the totems that take away the fun.
It could work the same way reporting hackers or spammers does, by reporting the totem-user for "totem abuse" (or something along those lines) in the report tab.
It's unlikely this idea would actually be implemented but it's a reasonable idea nonetheless.

And Silver, totems are more often than not completely unavoidable.
You can't really compare totems to items or spirits, because you always have a fair chance to survive most of them (maybe with the exception of companion crates and spiderwebs, but that's up for debate).
You can jump over/get under incoming boxes. You can dodge cannons coming from portals. You can stay away and avoid spirits/anti-spirits. You can survive a meep by simply staying away from the shaman.
Totems? You can't predict what it's going to be. 20 cannon totems, anvil gods, cannon gods, box gods: People have a very slim chance of surviving those - especially compared to simple items, spirits or cannons.
You say skill is a giant factor but totems are the exact opposite. The only real skill totems show is your building skills (but half the time people just find guides off the internet). Troll totems are fun, sure, but after the initial backlash most people wouldn't miss them.
And, my final point - you and a few others may not mind totems but you have to face the fact that most people in the survivor community DO mind them, and the majority in these types of debates matter more than the small minority.

/support. Survivor is the place where most anvil/box/cannon god totems are used, which is actually against the rules. Mods usually have higher priorities than banning people for these totems so they never end up getting banned even though they're breaking the rules. It'd be better to remove totems from survivor altogether to prevent more people from breaking the rules.
Not to mention that it doesn't take any skill to spawn one of those cannon totems or god totems and have most of the room wiped out. Survivor shouldn't be about spawning a totem and automatically getting the stats you want without any effort, that ruins the entire point of the game mode. I used to frequently play survivor but I stopped playing it because of how unfair it got. I recently just got back into it, and now I can see why I stopped playing. Survivor is filled with people who don't even try to kill anyone, they just spawn totems instead. I'm very disappointed that after all this time, totems still haven't been removed from survivor.

a dit :

It's not wrong. In the case of survivor, the gameplay consists of 1 shaman trying to kill all other mice in the room. That's exactly what a totem does, so in what way does using a totem disturb the gameplay?

a dit :

The shamans items are supposed to help them reach their goal
the goal is to kill every mouse in survivor
the totem is an item


you get the point

It doesnt give mice a chance to survive it properly. If you argue on this way, why did divine mode get disabled for survivor, along with some skills (rev, faster spawn, freeze)? Its all to help the shaman killing, but yet it got removed.
One person messing up the gameplay of 25 other mice sounds really wrong to me, thats why totemsusers gain so much hate.

Silverden a dit :

Dont ban them. Personally I never use totems in survivor, and yes they can get a bit annoying but it keeps it interesting. Theres only so much you can do in survivor, and skill is the largest factor. So what you collect all the survivor items and titles?

Keep in mind, I ONLY PLAY SURVIVOR. In fact I recognize most of you. Survivor cant really be enjoyed unless there is more to it then just cannons. Totems make it interesting, killing people or missing them completely. People over-reacted when we got different cannons to use in survivor, but no one is complaining about them now.

If TFM bans totems in survivor you bet you'll never see my name in a survivor room again. You might as well ban items in survivor too because its a "cheap" way for others to kill people and earn coins/points. Oh, also you might want to ban giving "meeps" to people in survivor. Kinda cheap too right? You might as well ban boxes because some folks, (cough jimbon cough) hate when people use them to kill others. Wait! I forgot about anti-spirit, ban that too!

HOLD ON! You might as well ban everything but cannons, because apparently thats what survivor is. Just cannons. Fun right? Nothing. But. Cannons.

Now that my rant of sarcasm is over, I can tell you survivor would really suck without totems.

I think none of us even mentioned anti-spirits, meeps, items etc..? We don't complain much about that because it's been in the game since way before and it's something that we can survive to sometimes but dude.. we can't survive to totems, people might say "oh you can survive to them yes, they might fail, there are grounds in the map that prevent you from dying", but no.. just no.. practically all of the totems shown in the Examples tab kill 90% of the mice.

/half support

Leon, I understand that most people in our tribe hate totems, but I like them. No I don't like it when people use a full out canon totem or anvil god but I think it's funny when people make creations with them like a place for the to sit and enjoy playing. But people who use it just so they can get kills shouldn't happen. What I think Atelier should do is take out canons and anvils for totems. Hope this helps :)

/support!

Killing mice with no totems can be very challenging, mice need to learn without totems.
Also its very unfair for a good totem can wipe everyone out, people like to start fights when I spawn my cannon totem..

Elite4woolfy a dit :

The shamans items are supposed to help them reach their goal
the goal is to kill every mouse in survivor
the totem is an item


you get the point

i really hate to call people out on a topic like this but you hate 18 rounds of survivor played, during that time you may not have even seen a totem used to kill in survivor. also i hate this argument that "they're in the game for a reason", while that may be true how can you argue this is fair and fun to play, because i can assure you as someone who plays survivor a lot, consistently being unfairly killed multiple times is the complete opposite of fun.

Silverden a dit :

long post

i know you and i haven't always seen eye to eye but i'm going to try and keep my bias out of this and address your post

Silverden a dit :

Dont ban them. Personally I never use totems in survivor, and yes they can get a bit annoying but it keeps it interesting. Theres only so much you can do in survivor, and skill is the largest factor.

so you argue that skill is the largest factor in survivor and i agree with you here, but yet in the same sentence you argue for not banning them? don't you think there's an inherent correlation between unskilled survivor players and those that use totems? i think it's much more important to achieve a balanced and fair game than one that is "interesting", and i think it's a little ridiculous how you value this over the game being fair

Silverden a dit :

So what you collect all the survivor items and titles?

Keep in mind, I ONLY PLAY SURVIVOR. In fact I recognize most of you. Survivor cant really be enjoyed unless there is more to it then just cannons. Totems make it interesting, killing people or missing them completely. People over-reacted when we got different cannons to use in survivor, but no one is complaining about them now.

it's almost as if you're saying that totems are the only interesting thing about survivor, that it is all literally just shamans shooting cannons then are totems really the only thing keeping you playing? i've collected all the titles and items and i keep playing because survivor is fun, and totems being spammed in survivor rooms take away from the fun of playing hugely.

there's also a massive difference in cannon skins and totems that kill you instantly, that shouldn't need explaining.

Silverden a dit :

If TFM bans totems in survivor you bet you'll never see my name in a survivor room again. You might as well ban items in survivor too because its a "cheap" way for others to kill people and earn coins/points. Oh, also you might want to ban giving "meeps" to people in survivor. Kinda cheap too right? You might as well ban boxes because some folks, (cough jimbon cough) hate when people use them to kill others. Wait! I forgot about anti-spirit, ban that too!

HOLD ON! You might as well ban everything but cannons, because apparently thats what survivor is. Just cannons. Fun right? Nothing. But. Cannons.

not a whole lot of this is really relevant, if totems are banned in survivor then all of these things you listed will still be usable, not to mention none of them are remotely as game breaking as totems are. as much as i dislike people spamming items to kill people, i understand that competent players can consistently play around them, how do you play around a wall of cannons that kills you every time?

i remember there were a couple times where totems had been temporarily disabled in survivor and how much better the gameplay was, the rooms were a lot less toxic and it became more about skill. i'm a little disappointed that totems in survivor have been allowed as long as they have, but i really hope action is taken to bring more emphasis on a skill based game

Lakarjgpoarj a dit :

1 in 3-4 shams has a "creative" totem

Lunarianuba a dit :

at times it feels like 50% of the shamans are using one

80% just use a random 20 cannons totem

95% of the shamans use totems just for mass killing

Since last night I've been playing in 3 different survivor rooms with 20-25 mice for an extended period of time, in 3 different time periods to see for myself how big this problem really is. In none of the rooms there was a shaman who used a totem, or even attempted to use one. So I am starting to wonder how if this really is an issue or if it's just limited to one room. If the numbers that are portrayed by several people here are true, then I should have seen a killer totem regularly. Instead, I saw none. Do you guys ever play in a different room than the one you usually play in?