Ball Jumping Proof |
Haruhitastic « Censeur » 1441290300000
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monatilus a dit : Prr a dit : They can easily be traded to you, so yes; they are available for everyone. Prr a dit : Wall jump, corner jump, various other jumps are "unintended mechanics," therefore meaning bugs. |
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Haruhitastic a dit : Sigh. You really went there? That's an association fallacy and you know it. a dit : The word trade usually implies the exchange of goods or services. How do you trade for balls if you have no consumables to trade with? To go with a fallacious analogy, how come everyone doesn't have cake since you can easily trade for it even if you're not a baker? Dernière modification le 1441295100000 |
Haruhitastic « Censeur » 1441295580000
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Prr a dit : Is it? They're comparable in my opinion. Wall jumping/corner jumping wasn't an intended mechanic, yet someone discovered it was a thing that could be done and began doing it. Others followed suit. Wall jump, as you may know, was said by Tigrounette himself that it was a bug; yet because it became so popular and necessary for many maps, it wasn't fixed. Corner jump, although never classified as anything, is the same concept. That is the point I'm trying to make. Prr a dit : I say trade because that is the method in which they can be received, not literally trading for them. People give things away all the time. If you play any event map you're bound to get some too. You're acting as if consumables are some premium item that is super rare and nobody can get, but it's not that difficult to get them. |
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Haruhitastic a dit : Walljumping and cornerjumping were known since day1 (I assume they were known by Tig before the game was even released because you really can't miss them unless you don't even test your own game) and left in the game because they enhance gameplay and are easily accessible to everyone. Not comparable with a consumable that not only makes the gameplay worse (as in breaks the currently intended way to play most of maps, a lot like water glitching did) but also isn't equally available to everyone. Just because you can define both as bugs doesn't make them the same, thus association fallacy. Unless you're expecting ball jumping/consumables to never get fixed and instead become an integral part of the gameplay up to the point where it starts defining how maps are made. I really doubt anyone wants to see that happen. a dit : If you're not a known player, just asking for consumables will not get you any, that I can guarantee. Again, not equally available but to those who play a lot, which makes it an unfair advantage no matter how you twist it. It's kinda the same concept as pay2win, but instead of paying with money, you'll have to pay with your time to farm consumables. Dernière modification le 1441299600000 |
Squirrelmows « Citoyen » 1441304700000
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walljumping also "breaks the currently intended way to play most of maps". Think about the vanilla map with the exploding balls, it's "intended" to be completed with the firing mice out the funnel, but many people chose to walljump up the side and gain cheese before the sham has had a chance to spawn/explode the ball. I fail to see how you can say they are not comparable, when both of them can, without the aid of shaman, complete maps the shaman is "intended" to build for you to complete. (and i'm not even gonna go into "intended ways" to finish maps on an open ended physics based puzzle game where there's many many ways to complete most maps....) I've made an alt, asked for free stuff, and got it. Be polite. Another option is to join a decent tribe, one with competitions/giveaways/prizes for gaining ranks/daily logins. These things exist you know. I personally give stuff away all the time. I don't care for anything apart from furs (and right now, grades, but that's purely to trade for furs) so if i see someone that really freaking loves mistletoe or snowstorms or paper planes, i give them to them. Also when the headmaster map starts playing and people are all "dang, 3 more Fs till my title" or whatever, i'll give them those Fs. Most of the time when i try to give people stuff they don't take it for free! and the insist on putting stuff in the other side of the trade, which is the sole reason i have paper balls/planes when i've never bought them. Perhaps you need to change your approach. Are you begging? people hate that. Or did you just simply "garuntee" that would never happen without actually trying? Cos i tried, and it worked fine (i got mostly fish :) ) you're main argument is that consumables are not accessable to everyone, right? when walljumping/cornerjumping is? I'm sorry but that just doesn't ring true to me. The only thing that prevents someone from getting free, easily accessable consumables to trade for whatever they want (and i'm disregarding give-aways here, purely earned ones) is time. Event maps pop up every 20 mins or so and you are garunteed to get a consumable if you see them through to the end. And this timer doesn't start when YOU login, so you may be lucky and login and get event maps in 2 maps time. It's hardly a lot of time. If you can't play for half an hour you're not really playing enough to expect grand changes to be made in the game mechanics to please you, are you? you can surely see the majority of the playerbase is not on "your side" in this debate, and I don't see why they'd change the game to please not only the minority, but the minority who barely plays the game. If it's time based gains your complaining about I don't see why you're also not complaining about skills, seen as the only way to gain experience is to play the game for an amount of time, and the only way to gain skills is with said expirience, and it gives huge game changing advantages. TLDR: 1)walljumping and balljumping both achieve the same end (faster completion) through an unintended mechanic/bug, without shaman help, and are thus comparable. 2) free stuff is totally out there if you have the right approach, even to those who arn't established. 3)complaining that you have to play the game, to get the benefits/get ahead in the game, is silly and entitled :P |
Mousechris « Censeur » 1441305180000
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monatilus a dit : Not EVERYONE can get first, for some people, getting first is too difficult, or other reasons (other reasons meaning you can't think of anything) Do you know see the major flaw in what your saying? This is a game of skills for a reason. |
Superbethan « Citoyen » 1441305840000
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Okay, Let me explain the reason walljumping and ball jumping is not the same. Wall jumping is a glitch, which means to do it, you have to expolit falty programing. Ball jumping, on the other hand is a type of trick, where you use what the game intends you to do and expolit it. To ball jump, you bounce a ball torwards a wall then jump on the corner of it Balls are bouny, so you go up in the air. |
Squirrelmows « Citoyen » 1441305960000
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I still think it's totally out of order to complain that people who invest more time in a game are better at it/gain an advantage over people who can't invest as much time... Dernière modification le 1441306140000 |
Haruhitastic « Censeur » 1441306260000
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Thank you Squirrel for putting the thing into words which is something I'm bad at My tribe constantly swaps consumables back and forth. One girl gave me 80 yellow fireworks when I remarked they were the only consumable I liked. It's not impossible to get them at all. In fact, it's likely more impossible to avoid getting them. |
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Squirrelmows a dit : Since it's a feature that has been in the game right from the beginning, it has never interfered with the intended way to play the game. It has been an intented way to play right from the get-go and all the maps have been made with the knowledge of walljump existing. You're essentially saying bug/glitch abuse is ok because walljumping exists. I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous stance. I could argue that crashing the rooms with the infinite lava accelaration bug, instant cheese/hole glitch, water glitching and all the other bug abuses are/were fine too because walljumping exists. You're also mixing "putting the time into the game to get actually good at it in order to gain an edge" with "putting the time into the game to farm a bunch of items in order to gain an edge". There's a distinct difference between the two. If you want to farm items in order to gain an edge, there's WoW and other MMOs. As I see it, this game has always been purely skill-based until now. Also, I don't need a guide on how to get consumables since I don't even play, thank you. My main argument is that allowing glitch abuse like this is dumb in the first place, and the fact that it can only be abused if you farm/beg for consumables makes it extra dumb. It's a really simple argument. I haven't tested it, but I'm fairly sure you can combine the ball glitch with the minimize glitch to fly through whole maps. How is it that you can defend that? Dernière modification le 1441309140000 |
Squirrelmows « Citoyen » 1441309740000
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if you don't even play, why are you even debating about the future and current mechanics of the game? |
Mousechris « Censeur » 1441309920000
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Prr a dit : Maps in rotation are required to play the same in both minimalism mode and normal mode. So no. Dernière modification le 1441309980000 |
Haruhitastic « Censeur » 1441310880000
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Prr a dit : - Crashing the room causes issues for all users and their computers. I don't know how the heck you can even find that comparable. - Instant cheese/hole, the only instance of this existing now is not bannable because it's a bug with sync (and also not abusable lol) and I can't think of any past examples of this. - Water glitch was literally employing certain keystrokes for water to act completely different to how it was supposed to. It's hardly comparable to spawning a ball underneath you and jumping off of it. |
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Mousechris a dit : Minimize glitch =/= minimalism mode Dernière modification le 1441314480000 |
Mousechris « Censeur » 1441316340000
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Sinnwidrig a dit : Then I don't know what he's talking about, instead of pointing out that it's not the same, try describing the glitch instead |
Pleasedontcopymyname « Citoyen » 1441317240000
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Mousechris a dit : It's when the minimize button would cause certain game mechanics to not function like they normally would. I believe it's been fixed since then. As for my stance on this issue, I'm currently indifferent. If people want to use consumables to their advantage, that's good for them. If admins don't like that, they can always make balls not collidable with mice (but I'm pretty sure they've noticed this happening and would've done something by now?) Dernière modification le 1441326300000 |
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Some glitches people can figure out based on what they've been called. |
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Haruhitastic a dit : By using the same association fallacy you do when you compare balljump abuse to walljumping. They are both technically bugs that are being abused, so they're comparable right? /tongue-in-cheek a dit : There were abusable ways to do it and there still are (not applicable for public rooms anymore afaik though). a dit : The way the ball bounces you up is acting completely differently from how it's supposed to. Instead of just giving you the slight bounce balls should, spawning it correctly forces you to bounce multiple times on it within a few frames, ending up in you flying up way higher than should be possible with just a one jump (just fyi, that's just my educated guess on how it technically works). Directly comparable to other abuses where you use the faulty game mechanics to act way differently than they were intended to. Also, there are still ways to use the mechanics of the water glitch to do some other stuff that is incredibly unfair. So where do you draw the line on what is "acceptable bug abuse" and what is not? I'd ask a one simple question if I were to decide whether to keep/allow a glitch abuse or to ban/remove it: Does the bug enhance the gameplay for everyone? For balljumping it's an obvious no, since it is somewhat inconsistent, not equally available for everyone and can never become part of map design or general gameplay. There is no compelling reason to keep it around. Squirrelmows a dit : Because reasons. Dernière modification le 1441323420000 |
Haruhitastic « Censeur » 1441323540000
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Prr a dit : No, they're not; and I'd appreciate if you didn't have an attitude with me. (Also, crashing has been fixed for quite some time although an excessive amount of dynamic objects can cause lag/crash) There is a stark difference in crashing a room and using a single consumable to move a little ahead of everyone. Crashing a room causes issues for users' PCs and can even crash them from the server or their client. A single ball just gives you a little advantage over others. Prr a dit : If you're so bothered then by all means report it to a moderator privately. Prr a dit : It's an issue with ground mechanics actually. If a shaman spawns a ball in the same area, the exact same thing happens. Ban newbie shamans from using balls if you're so bothered by this concept. :P I also don't understand why you're so passionate about this when by your own admission you don't even play anymore. Gamercp a dit : That's water glitch. Also, "describing glitches" is sharing how to exploit bugs and can be a big issue for users. (And before someone claims how this thread is full of explanations of bug abuse, it's not classified as a bug.) |
Pleasedontcopymyname « Citoyen » 1441326180000
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My apologies then I'll make sure to edit that out. I guess I should've been more broad. But wasn't the water glitch part of the minimize glitch? The minimize glitch had multiple effects, water being one of them. e; fixed my wording in previous post so it'll be more vague. Dernière modification le 1441327500000 |