Anythin a dit :

That's funny because in the past 2 hours in survivor1 on the EN server there were a total of 2 shamans who attempted to use a cannon totem (can you believe it??), and both of them failed to kill all mice. Why? Because there were grounds who blocked their totem, which means they didn't place their totem properly. You don't have to believe me, there were 25 other mice in the room that saw the same thing as me. So far I still have no reason to assume that the situations portrayed in this thread are respresentative for the entire EN/E2 community, which makes this suggestion completely out of proportion.

First off, you can't make a definitive decision about how effective and often totems are used based off a mere 2 hours of playtime and totems coming from 2 people, because in the long run those findings don't even begin to show how totems are used normally.
And, the people who placed their totems 'incorrectly' still had totems that are, if they were to be placed 'correctly', unfair, deadly and OP?

Fact of the matter is you're using your findings of 2 totems that didn't work from 2 people in the span of 2 hours to make a judgement on the whole of survivor. Believe it or not, anyone with a decent amount of playtime in survivor has seen totems being used 'correctly' and often.

Number of Times Shaman:30
Killed Mice:257
Rounds Survived :188

Those are your statistics in survivor. Say what you want -- but you cannot deny that, compared to well over half the people in this thread, you are extremely under-experienced and along with how you used 2 hours of playtime to make a judgement those statistics make your argument look very fallacious.

I apologize if you've had another account with more experience, but if you haven't I don't take back my statements.

I would like to add to everyone who shows their support, i have another idea for totem users, maybe if we keep banning them like the whole room just do /ban user, maybe the problem won't be as much either, me and my tribe have been doing it for a while and i must say it is nice to see the totem users get banned out of the room,. Any one want to say it is unfair, fine i don't care totems are unfair too

Igizmo a dit :

stuff

If you read the entire thread and not just my last post you would see that my decisions aren't based on 2 hours of gameplay alone. That said, fact remains that the situations and numbers in this thread are overly dramatized and are not a true representation of the EN/E2 community. No matter how many times you say my stats are neglegible, if the situation was truly as bad as claimed in this thread I wouldn't even need 2 hours to see any of it.

/almost a full support
I agree, these totems are really annoying since they don't require any skill, and the players can only really rely on luck. (although I have done anvil god totems and tons of cannons, they didn't really work out anyway.)
yet I also disagree a little, since sometimes shamans have totems that don't kill anyone, and are only for fun.
I don't really know what to say about the box/cage totem, but that's annoying too.
I think there should be a limit to cannons used in totems, you'd never need 20 cannons in a normal or vanilla room.
though i wouldn't mind if totems were removed.

Instead of removing them, maybe an alternative mode like a vanilla survivor mode?

Badasshf a dit :

Instead of removing them, maybe an alternative mode like a vanilla survivor mode?

We want survivor's gameplay to be as less effected as possible so... i don't know how would you put vanilla and survivor together??

/no support

fuzzyfirsdog a dit :

/no support

Can you give your reasons?

Anythin a dit :

Igizmo a dit :VoirMasquer

stuff

If you read the entire thread and not just my last post you would see that my decisions aren't based on 2 hours of gameplay alone. That said, fact remains that the situations and numbers in this thread are overly dramatized and are not a true representation of the EN/E2 community. No matter how many times you say my stats are neglegible, if the situation was truly as bad as claimed in this thread I wouldn't even need 2 hours to see any of it.

Two hours of playtime at a random time in the day isn't a good thing to base an argument in a post on regardless.
I'm sorry, but saying that a common mutual opinion between a large amount of players (all of whom have more playtime and experience than most people), a mass of recorded situations and educated numbers are not in any way credible or representative of the EN2 survivor rooms is ridiculous.

Most of these people who comment on this thread, example Jimbon and Lakarjgpoarj, even me, have played survivor for hours on end and what might seem as a dramatization to you could be an understatement to them.

And
Majority > Minority
Ask everyone with a decent amount of playtime in survivor -- I can assure you the majority are against totems.

Added note, with the new inclusion of survivor coins, totems (besides the innocent/joke ones) are essentially a way to cheat the game and earn totems at an unfairly fast rate.

Igizmo a dit :

I'm sorry, but saying that a common mutual opinion between a large amount of players (all of whom have more playtime and experience than most people), a mass of recorded situations and educated numbers are not in any way credible or representative of the EN2 survivor rooms is ridiculous.

Most of these people who comment on this thread, example Jimbon and Lakarjgpoarj, even me, have played survivor for hours on end and what might seem as a dramatization to you could be an understatement to them.

I didn't say it's not representative for E2 survivor rooms, I said it's not representative for EN/E2 survivor rooms. That's a significant difference. Since this forum community serves both the EN and E2 community, it's not fair to only base your arguments on one community. To add to that, what you're missing is that a lot of players who posted in this thread mainly play in survivor1 on the E2 server. That means their experience is mostly limited to that room. They can all come here and say how terrible these totems are, but if they hardly go elsewhere to play survivor their experiences are not representative for the EN/E2 community and their hours of additional play time have no added value to this discussion.

Leonboss a dit :

Badasshf a dit :VoirMasquer

Instead of removing them, maybe an alternative mode like a vanilla survivor mode?

We want survivor's gameplay to be as less effected as possible so... i don't know how would you put vanilla and survivor together??

No I'm not suggesting those two together, I'm suggesting a "vanilla survivor" mode; an entirely different game-mode to "vanilla" and "survivor"

Even if they did not allow you to use cannons on the totem or limited the amount you could use the anvil gods would still be there.. :/ and they are even more deadly than the cannon totems!

haven't looked at this thread in a couple weeks but i'm still surprised that action hasn't been taken to limit totems in survivor. this thread shows an overwhelming amount of support to ban them yet nothing has changed, not to mention that this isn't a new problem -- totems have been around for years and they are single handedly the worst thing about survivor

to highlight how much support there is for banning survivor totems -- in this thread alone -- i went to the effort of counting up people's votes [here's the pastebin for it if you want to double check]

SUPPORT TOTEM BAN - 62
HALF SUPPORT TOTEM BAN - 7
NO SUPPORT TOTEM BAN - 5

83.78% support the totem ban


some of those who support the totem ban:

lakarjgpoarj - leader of the largest survivor tribe, 71,000 rounds played (3rd most), 76,000 kills (9th most)
xsatellitewo - 76,000 rounds played (2nd most), 52,000 survived rounds (most survived)
igoesmoo - 40,000 rounds played
igizmo - 26,000 rounds played
jimbon - 32,000 rounds played
leonboss - 28,000 rounds played
cgbotwin - 25,000 rounds played
mtfireblitz - 20,000 rounds played
voiddoge - 16,000 rounds played
easyaim - 16,000 rounds played
leonhoi - 16,000 rounds played

a small sample size of some of the names i recognize who support the ban in this thread, some of whom only play survivor and know the impact of totems. compare this to the people who support the totem ban

elite4woolfy - 166 rounds played
anythin - 469 rounds played (how many of those are as a result of this thread?)
fuzzyfirsdog - 3k rounds played

the people who support the totem ban are the most active and well versed survivor players on the whole of TFM, amassing hundreds of thousands of rounds of experience between them while those who want to keep totems have stats as if they started playing last week. i don't like to discredit the opinions of others due to experience but this is a decision that is based on playing with and without totems and the bottom line is people who support keeping totems in survivor barely have enough experience to back up their claims.


the rest of my post is going to be directed at anythin and anyone who is arguing to keep totems in survivor

while you say the people who support the ban are concentrated en2 players, i can assure you that if you asked the general active survivorpopulous they would say the same, that totems are toxic for the game and drive people away. i've stated multiple times that totems are fundamentally unhealthy for the game and that they can kill every player in the room instantly but the only arguments i've had against this is that "totems don't work on all maps" or "they can sometimes be avoided". i agree with that 100%, but have you ever faced a competent person who uses a totem? someone whose totem isn't 3 cannons facing the wrong way that kills them in the process. this doesn't even cover anvil god totems, which are basically a certain death every round if they are built right (which doesn't take 5 minutes to do . . )

totems are the problem here, don't marginalize the negative aspects of their impact to survivor based on people who just scraped enough saves to use them. a well made cannon totem will kill mice unfairly every time it is used and i find it ridiculous that you're arguing for them to be kept in a game which has an absolute focus on skill. cannon / anvil totems are skill-less, there is no denying this

another point you raised earlier which i part agree with you here is how commonly totems are used. i know there are some claims in here that totems are used every other round which is very exaggerated. as much as i dislike totems, i appreciate they are not commonly used and it is only a small majority of players who use them. in a room of 30 people i'd expect maybe 3 people to use a totem during their sham turn, which doesn't sound like a lot but when they use it every time they sham it quickly adds up. instant kill totems collectively ruin the experience for everyone, the only person who enjoys them is the person using them and i think you would know more than most how vocal the community is about speaking out against things they don't like

the point i'm trying to make here [and i've made several times before but no-one seems to pick up on it] is that while totems are uncommon in survivor, this does not mean they are not a problem. totems being uncommon doesn't hide the fact they are gamebreaking and unfair, a point which has been beaten to death at this point

tl;dr ban totems already, no one wants them

There's nothing left for me to say without repeating myself. The only thing left I want to point out is that this is a suggestions subforum, not a "I demand this and that" subforum. If you compare the amount of replicants (supporters and non supporters) in this thread to the amount of survivor players game-wide (at least 2500), then statistically you're in no position to demand changes. You can suggest changes, and they either happen or they don't. You should accept that and move on.

Oh, and your tl;dr is being contradicted by the first half of your post.

To be honest, totems DOES seem to be unfair. If hard mode is removed, then that makes it even more useful with just normal mode mice to begin with.

Nobody is reading what leon posted, all of you guys are just posting random crap about "helps kill mice", think of the possibilities of surviving a totem and I'll say that's 1/100 due to the fact its unexpected what's going to come outta a totem and the fact that players are allowed up to 20 items of use in a totem which allows noobs to use 20 cannons blocking all ways.

If its to hard for developers to remove totems outta survivor, simply just remove cannons outta totem designing, its not like it's gonna be used in vanilla anyway.

/support

Honestly i am amazed that nothing is changed, in the mean time i had the joy to talk to different mods in game. Even some of them stated they wanted totems removed out of survivor. Nice to hear that one so thank you mods i hope you guys can push a bit harder then the community can.

Second admins please i know it might be a bit work for you guys but please just remove hard mode like you removed divine, Like Jimbon said 87% of the peoples that commented in this thread want them gone. I don't think you guys can go very wrong with making a decision that benefits most peoples and go ahead. I hope to find someone really soon ingame and talk to you if you have a spare 5 mins because i know how busy you all are.

Thanks yours Lakar

It's sad to see this might not come true, i was told Admins usually don't check this kind of suggestions. Players don't get supported when they think something would change the game to good, sorry to sound pessimistic but Survivor isn't the same anymore. //\\