Reversed Maps [Update discussion] |
Patosho « Citoyen » 1421941680000
| 0 | ||
prr a dit : There's nothing I can say about this, you're right. Updates without announcements are a recurring theme in A801 though. prr a dit : In my previous post I stated the competitive playerbase is a minority. If I have to make this distinction then the community is way smaller. I wouldn't be surprised if the devs didn't care at all about this small group of people. prr a dit : I know what you're talking about since I play bootcamp, but I don't see this particular update as a big deal. But apparently I'm not a competitive player since I don't go for WRs and such (but I do care about times). I think the devs simply don't take this game the same way as you (the -really- competitive community) do, their philosophy seems to be making a casual game for fun, and that's the way TFM has always been, at least since I started playing (2011). If they cared about people going for records and stuff they'd have implemented a 'best times' list or something like that for every map a long time ago. Take in mind what someone said above, this game was only supported by donations the first couple years since its release. It's always been full of bugs and inconsistencies. Give it some time, some support and some feedback and it might eventually go to the right direction with the competitive stuff. Remember they were planning to add leaderboards to some games (they already did with Bouboum). They might do the same thing with TFM some day. In any case, hostile complains like the OP's won't get the game anywhere. It's more likely that they ignore the competitive community if they see that's the way they behave. |
Noscroll « Citoyen » 1421942520000
| 0 | ||
patosho a dit : Actually, every players that tries to first a map and to invest his time into understanding the gameplay of this game is a competitive player. Even if someone cares about his stats, he will still care about the competitive aspect of this game because he will, for example, try to first to improve his stats. And to first, he has to develop his skills. Not only in racing, it's the case in vanilla, normal rooms... When the bubbles/sills updates arrived, i had a huge feedback of people that used to play with competition in vanilla/normal rooms before, telling me that it is now very hard to do that. The more we advance in time, the more vanilla and normal rooms, or just rooms with shaman are only about being lucky. It maybe doesnt apply for bootcamp, where there is no real "competitivity" (except between you and the map if you don't care about the times. So i think that competitive players and players that actually recognize this game as requiring a lot of skill and as having an interesting gameplay, are a lot, alot more than players who only play this game to pass time one saturday night while they are high or drunk (not that it's a bad thing, it's actually pretty funny). It's okay to make updates towards the fun part of the game, towards new players. But the problem is that it has, almost all the time, an impact on those who try to play this game on it's competitive side, who are actually the majority of the players. Just look at youtube. This game could be awesome but i just feel like it's being wasted Dernière modification le 1421942640000 |
Pinkyxxxx « Citoyen » 1421943660000
| 0 | ||
aeon a dit : Alright, I'm sorry Anyway, I think they'll fix it pretty soon just like most of the glitches they fixed in the past. And as I know, they did fix those mistakes in the new user interface update (when y and j appeared as v and i), so don't worry, I'm sure they're they're working hard to fix that inverse thing they've done (I still don't understand what did they even do, but ok haha), and get it back to normal. I just really get mad when people, except of praising the moderators for their hard work (I mean seriously, it's so hard to make a game like this, and make it so popular), they insult them and their work. Peace, have a nice day. |
Pinkyxxxx 1421943720000
| | ||
[Modéré par Shamousey, raison : Double post.] |
Patosho « Citoyen » 1421943780000
| 0 | ||
aeon a dit : Prr says competitive players are those who aim for records, mostly in racing and bootcamp. You said everyone is a competitive player and you don't make a distinction between them and statpadders. Vanilla and normal rooms are a different thing imo, those have always been based heavily on luck (and ping) more than skill and knowledge. Bubbles only make those rooms even more 'for fun'. When I go to a room the majority of players are just people whining because they couldn't wj faster and blame it all on luck/ping, insulting the shaman and dying because they couldn't get first (statpadders). I rarely see true competitive players. In bootcamp it's the same thing, most players can't even handle most maps and then there's the big group of people than only play 'easy' maps and farm them. The very few competitive players usually play in rooms like #bootcamp, tribe house or their own rooms, alone. I don't think those players are a majority. |
Noscroll « Citoyen » 1421943840000
| 0 | ||
pinkyxxxx a dit : As far as i've observed, every map now comes either normal or inversed. I guess it's like 50% of the time that it gets inversed. Problem is, mechanics maps apparently don't support this inversion and pretty much all of them are fucked.. So i really hope this is going to be fixed. But i just fear that the community will have to do it itself. [Sentinel] Double post(s) merged. Please do not double post. Use the edit button if you wish to add something to your previous post. [#27] patosho a dit : Everyone that tries to first is competitive, he is competing against others to finish the map first. And this applies to almost all rooms. He can be bad at it, good at it, but he will still try. He will, for example try to walljump and stuff and he will slowly acquire new skill. And this is mainly why this game is awesome, because there is always a new thing to learn to get better. I think, and this is my opinion, that a lot of people like this game because it's competitive. And for what you said on vanilla, there was actually a time where vanilla vs's and vanilla tribewars were more valuable than racing tribewar/versus's. There used to be a time where vanilla was actually very skillfull, if you forgot about the few collision maps, and maybe that anvil god map. People just used to "skip" those maps when there were doing a tribewar for example. Now, it has becoming impossible to do a vanilla tribewar anymore, because you are just skipping like 75% of the maps and it is really annoying. Dernière modification le 1421962080000 |
Noscroll 1421944380000
| | ||
[Modéré par Jordy, raison : Double post.] |
Shamousey « Consul » 1421944740000
| 0 | ||
I'll start off by mentioning this was explained to the Map Crew team as something introduced to "diversify the gameplay" in this gamemode. I completely agree that this helps to diversify the gameplay, and if you're a decent player then it won't change anything for you except being a little bit more fun. Also, just so you know, Tigrounette isn't the only developer for the game, please don't use him as a scapegoat. Noexcuses a dit : Booster grounds will be fixed in the next server restart. It's understandable that some things were missed, but they've been addressed very quickly in this case. Patosho a dit : None of the physics changes have been because they wanted to ruin maps or whatnot, but because there were certain hacks, glitches, inconsistencies and other things that generally ruined the gameplay for a lot more people, which relied on some of the ways those things worked. It's better to have gotten these things out of the way so the gameplay can be fair for everyone playing. Prr a dit : Bafflua itself was never directly affected, rather it was the way speedrunners ended up using the times in the game in general to get their scores. Again, this was a result of a bug in another part of the game just being fixed. Pikashu did end up adding features to the Module API within days that would act as a solution, it was just me that never implemented it into Bafflua's code because I was working on another module based entirely around it. The friction was never meant to be changed like that, it just came down to the unfortunate way Flash/Box2D handles calculations across different FPS'. I agree that maps before were related to muscle memory, but they still are now. If you like, just treat these reversed maps as new maps in rotation that you have to play to get used to. |
0 | ||
patosho a dit : Essentially I agree with Aeon's definition of a competitive player, although I don't think this particular update means anything for the average player who just wants some firsts (that's why the distinction). People are just mad because it's just an annoying zero value change for everyone. Every game mechanic change does affect even the semi-competitive players though, so it's not like it's a minority who get affected by these things. You can keep a game fun and make it even more fun for new players while not screwing over people who have spent years learning the game if you just put some thought into it and maybe do what other good game companies do: ask the community, and especially when fiddling around with game mechanics, ask the players who know the game better than the developers do. a dit : This reasoning for the constant game mechanic changes is simply baffling to me. Killing game mechanics just to make a few hackers change their hacks to something else (like the countless of speedhacks the racers have been using since the beginning of time) is definitely not favouring the legitimate playerbase. I understand the intention was good, but again, maybe someone should've asked one of the knowledgeable players what they were actually changing. I'm also sorry to burst the bubble, but friction still works differently on different framerates. It is not fixed by any means. It is less noticeable now that friction works badly for everyone, but the inconsistensies are still there. Same thing with the animation removals, any one of us who actually learned to abuse the animations could've told you exactly how the mechanics worked and what would happen if you went fiddling with them. Instead we just get a change out of the blue claiming that it was all based on computer power and a gasp when they find out they've broken half of the maps in rotation? That, I think, showed me how out of the loop the devs were with their game. Things have gotten slightly better in that department with the addition some staff members I guess, but only slightly. And again, I can't stress the importance of letting the playerbase know exactly what has been changed, when and why. Not only it will keep people from asking the same questions all over and over again, but it'll also let the players adapt to changes better. Besides, the game is still anything but fair due to the aforementioned speedhacks. They're far more hurtful to the game than the random flying mouse in a regular room. Dernière modification le 1421947440000 |
Elmikle « Consul » 1421944860000
| 0 | ||
How should I play racing if ALL maps are corrupted?! Do you heard about thing which called MEMORY?! What's wrong with admins?! Game was finally ruined. Dernière modification le 1421945220000 |
Auroraclears « Citoyen » 1421946420000
| 0 | ||
shamousey a dit : If this crap is Atelier 801's idea of "diversifying the gameplay" then they clearly desperately lack a developer who actually understands what bootcamp is or how it works. Until they hire someone who actually plays bootcamp and has a sufficient understanding of the mode, the very least they could do is look to the forums for suggestions on how to improve it instead of pulling this sort of bs. There are numerous entirely workable ideas of how to make bootcamp more varied and challenging that make actual sense. shamousey a dit : First off, why should the physics of the game be compromised to prevent/eliminate hacking when a much more reasonable solution would be to extend the moderation team? If you ever play on either EN server you can observe hackers in public bootcamp rooms accumulating hundreds of completions for hours without any action being taken against them. I have never seen that happen 1-2 years ago when things like water physics and wallpushing actually worked normally, and I somehow get the impression that it's due more to the fact that apart from Secretive there seem to be no active moderators on either EN whatsoever than any sort of physics feature that existed and was accepted for years before being inexplicably disabled. As far as actual glitches and inconsistencies are concerned, some people may not like confronting this but the fact remains that the entire physics of the game is largely glitch-based. In no way is that a bad thing since it's the glitches that make the physics engine of TFM unique. |
Patosho « Citoyen » 1421946900000
| 0 | ||
Mirroring some maps in bootcamp actually makes sense. As long as no maps are broken. Maps that we're so used to become more challenging as we have to relearn everything, as if they were new maps. I don't see the problem with that. |
Auroraclears « Citoyen » 1421951160000
| 0 | ||
patosho a dit : Try submitting a reversed equivalent of an existing map to the P3 submission thread and see how far that gets you. There's nothing particularly "challenging" about the same set of obstacles in mirrored form. If they wanted to deliver more variety to bootcamp they could've brought back wallpushing and changed water physics to what they were and many of the maps that are no longer in rotation could have been added back. |
Safwanrockz « Censeur » 1421953140000
| 0 | ||
I don't usually hate updates, but this one isn't to my liking. At first I thought it was a bug not a genuine update. It feels like the old maps were completely revamped into something I won't get used to very easily. |
Badhugs « Citoyen » 1421953800000
| 0 | ||
It would be nice to have patch notes released in the transformice section instead of being delegated to a "small changes" thread in the announcements forums. Same goes for any of atelier's games, they need to let us know about gameplay changes. However, for this particular update, there's no problem. Waaah, there's a 50% chance holding right before the map won't help me get a first! Dernière modification le 1421954280000 |
Imdeadinside « Citoyen » 1421961660000
| 0 | ||
This is another classic crappy update. So disorienting. |
Nafien « Citoyen » 1421964120000
| 0 | ||
i personally like this update pretty much o: bootcamps started to be boring because i could complete most maps and just tried to make better time always, but this makes some maps little bit harder maybe and its not so easy at start to do it this way so i like it |
0 | ||
i wouldn't be happy at all if i saw any of my maps reversed but who cares btw check out my new art Dernière modification le 1421980080000 |
Artk 1421979420000
| | ||
[Modéré par Shamousey, raison : Double post.] |
Gilcatmey « Citoyen » 1421985360000
| 0 | ||
auroraclears a dit : I spend most my time in bootcamp rooms in EN and I haven't seen any hacker get more than 100 bootcamp points, they get banned before. It's a very strange situation when they don't get to ban one hacker. Yeah at first it can be a challenge on some maps. But one will get used very quick until the update is simply useless. I have no problem with this update at all. And if someone considers themself a good player in bootcamp, racing or whatever game mode, it shouldn't be a problem to have reversed maps. But the thing I agree with you is how they could just go to the suggestion sub-forum and get ideas from there. The ones that have the most /support votes or something instead of updates no one asked for. Shamousey a dit : As Auroraclears said, the physics, friction, restitution or anything of the ground didn't have any fault about these problems, a good update, as a lot people have said already, would be to bring them back. I play bootcamp mainly because I got tired of first being based on ping and luck, I felt I couldn't show my skills there. And in bootcamp as Prr said, it's you vs the map, I don't really care about the times. My main goals in bootcamp are beating all maps (thanks to CFM I can keep track of that), and get at least in the Top 150 on CFM leaderboard. I'd like if normal rooms, or even racing, were actually skill based and not about memory, luck or ping, then it'd be interesting to play those game modes. Generally I don't post my opinions about updates here, but well this time I couldn't resist. Dernière modification le 1421986320000 |